Chiropractor Dr Ian Hoffman wants to help you start a non profit and wipe out your student loan debt. He is an amazing man with an amazing story. His desire to help a 4 year old cancer patient and his need to solve his crushing million dollar debt load lead to his inspired business. The Student Loan Eraser program. The Impact: In the 6 years that he has been teaching The Student Loan Eraser Program his clients will have started over 400 charities that are taking care of over 10,000 nonprofit visits a month! AND those doctors are going to save over $100 million from their student loans. Ian tells us how he built his business with webinars and how creating a non profit to serve their community can save a doctor tens of thousands of dollars off their student loans. There’s “Google Slaps”. The power of the email list. The Avatar Process and the perfect customer. Sorting out the who and not the how. And of course, the proven formula to saving hundreds of millions in dollars of student loan debts for his customers.
Chiropractor Dr Ian Hoffman wants to help you start a non profit and wipe out your student loans. He is an amazing man with an amazing story.
His desire to help a 4 year old cancer patient and his need to solve his crushing million dollar debt load lead to his inspired business. The Student Loan Eraser program.
The Impact: In the 6 years that he has been teaching The Student Loan Eraser Program his clients will have started over 400 charities that are taking care of over 10,000 nonprofit visits a month! AND those doctors are going to save over $100 million from their student loans.
Ian tells us how he built his business with webinars and how creating a non profit to serve their community can save a doctor tens of thousands of dollars off their student loans.
There’s “Google Slaps”. The power of the email list. The Avatar Process and the perfect customer. Sorting out the who and not the how.
And of course, the proven formula to saving hundreds of millions in dollars of student loan debts for his customers.
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Transcript:
Mischa Zvegintzov 00:10
Welcome everybody to the table rush master class where we get back to the marketing and sales basics to help you the listener, the viewer to grow your business to $1 million and beyond. And I am very, very blessed today to introduce everybody to Dr. Ian Hoffman. Welcome Dr. Dr. Hoffman.
Ian Hoffman 00:35
Thanks, Mischa glad to be here.
Mischa Zvegintzov 00:36
Yeah, fantastic. So we chatted very briefly, maybe a week or two ago, when we were setting this up. And, and it's a big gift from for me to have you on here. Because whether you know it or not, you are a massive inspiration for me. And actually, ultimately, the creation of this show, because via mutual friends, you know, I started getting introduced to funnels, webinars, all this stuff. And, and, and this mutual friend was like, oh, yeah, you know, my buddy, effectively, Ian you know, has just doing amazing stuff. And I was just captivated. Right? I was like, "Oh, my God". This is a two to three years ago. So to have you on. Super awesome. So thank you for joining.
Ian Hoffman 01:27
It's my pleasure. I'm so happy to hear that.
Mischa Zvegintzov 01:29
Yeah. So real quick. You have a you have a, a program, and it's called the Student Loan Eraser. Correct? Yeah. Fantastic. And so go ahead. Tell me quickly. Tell me about that. And then let's, let's talk about how you how you came to that and were able to bring it to market?
Mischa Zvegintzov 01:54
Sure. It's definitely a passion project of mine. You know, how it's a there are, I just feel like it was it was what I was put on this planet to do right now, which isn't an amazing feeling. So I'm actually a chiropractor to get into backstory. Yeah, dad's a chiropractor. Both of his brothers are chiropractors, I was born into that also. And I love being a chiropractor. And so what happened was, I was man, like three years into practice. My son was just born, I just came back to the office after taking a couple weeks off. And this, this pregnant mom came in as a new patient.
Ian Hoffman 02:37
And she brought her four year old daughter to the appointment. And this little girl had stage four cancer. That's the first thing that this mom said to me is my, my little girl. I lost it. I couldn't. I couldn't imagine no parent should have to go through that no child should have to go through that. So to make a long story short, that little girl really inspired me to actually start a nonprofit organization, a charity to expand access to chiropractic and holistic health care for underserved in my community.
Ian Hoffman 03:09
And as I was going through that process, it was right around the same time that I was really doing some research online about my student loans because I have a lot of debt. I remember having this. I hope I can say this this "Oh, shit moment."
Ian Hoffman 03:28
Because I remember I had I had just bought a house and between my wife myself, and our student loans, our cars, our mortgage, we had over a million dollars in debt. And that's a heavy weight? That's a heavy weight on somebody's shoulders. Yeah.
Mischa Zvegintzov 03:44
So how old were you at the time? Oh, man,
Mischa Zvegintzov 03:47
I'm 29, 30 years old. 30, 31. Something around there? Yeah.
Mischa Zvegintzov 03:55
And a young child. That's, that's heavy.
Ian Hoffman 03:58
Yeah, it was heavy.
Ian Hoffman 03:59
So when I started reading about this federal program called public service, loan forgiveness... I... I... My heart kind of skipped a beat. I had first read about it before I had even had this idea to start a nonprofit. And so there's only three requirements. But one of the major requirements is that you have to have qualifying employment, you have to work for the government or a nonprofit, to be eligible. And then once I had started my own nonprofit, I had this kind of Eureka moment that I might have reverse engineered my own eligibility. And that's exactly what happened. So, you know, fast forward a couple years from there, I wound up starting the student loan eraser, I put together this whole team, and we help doctors start charities with a dual purpose, which is to make the world a better place and get their student loans erased.
Mischa Zvegintzov 04:52
That's amazing.
Ian Hoffman 04:54
Thank you.
Mischa Zvegintzov 04:54
Oh, my gosh.
Ian Hoffman 04:56
Yeah, it's been quite a process. The transition wasn't easy. I was in practice full time, coming home, you know, having dinner with my family, they would go to bed, I'd be up till sometimes two, three in the morning. Writing the webinars writing the emails, just getting the infrastructure together reading.com secrets. Just feeding my, my, my my mind and getting educated on how to launch an online program because it's something I'd never done before.
Mischa Zvegintzov 05:22
So So you have the Epiphany, you're like, oh, my gosh, I can I am, you're in the middle of creating this nonprofit, you, you. You, you find out.
Mischa Zvegintzov 05:34
Here's a way for me to erase my debt, which if you don't mind me asking, What was that number for you? What was the chunk of that of your total debt?
Ian Hoffman 05:42
I borrowed around 150,000. And it was only going up because most doctors are on an income driven repayment plan, where their monthly payment is actually less than the than the debt, or I'm sorry, less than the interest. And so what happens is that on these income driven plans, they'll pay for 25 years. And at that point, anything that's left is forgiven, but the forgiven debt gets taxed as income. And so once once I heard that I'm like, Man, "this is a this is a black hole". Because I'm gonna just pay for, you know, till I'm 5560 years old. And at that point, I would still have a six figure tax bill.
Mischa Zvegintzov 06:27
And you're at the 40%, maybe the your, your, whatever, the gradient tax bracket is 40%. So
Ian Hoffman 06:35
Oh, yeah, that's in California. So between federal and state taxes, it probably would have been closer to 50%.
Mischa Zvegintzov 06:41
Man.
Ian Hoffman 06:42
Yeah, crazy.
Mischa Zvegintzov 06:43
So we're talking about a real number here, perhaps 75,000 Plus, or since it's actually your debts incrementally growing, because you're paying less than the than the amount? You know, you've got 200, or whatever that number is?
Ian Hoffman 06:58
Yeah. So I tell most people to think about it, like their mortgage, over 30 years, whatever your purchase price is for, you know, on average, right? Interest rate plays a role, but most people are going to pay double, whatever their purchase price was over 30 years.
Mischa Zvegintzov 07:13
Yeah.
Ian Hoffman 07:13
And so that's the way I was thinking about my student loans is, if I borrowed 150,000, over 25 years, you know, it wouldn't quite double because I was making payments, but all of the monthly payment was going to interest only I wasn't, I wasn't actually taken care of any of the principal.
Mischa Zvegintzov 07:31
Yeah. So you have the reverse engineer moment. And, and your in the fire, right of this million dollar debt load, I've been there and it's heavy, right? That's a heavy load. When you're trying to build a business. You're, you've got a son, a son, right? That's that. Yeah. And so trying to balance, like, time with family with the, I get it. It's heavy. I've been there. But tell me about the moment of that. You go, oh, my gosh, a reverse enginer? Did you was it like an overnight epiphany? I could help people with this... And then or was that a slow build?
Ian Hoffman 08:14
It was it was an overnight epiphany. And then the infrastructure was a slow build.
Mischa Zvegintzov 08:18
Okay.
Ian Hoffman 08:18
Russell Brunson says it's, "it's the who not the how." So I needed to find the right people. You know, to put together the team. I needed to write the webinar. I needed to really feel confident that at the end of the day I could deliver on the promise. Because I know how much my student loans caused anxiety for me and sleepless nights. And I didn't want to help anyone take that on; without really being certain that we could help them reach that goal, at the end of the day, of starting the nonprofit and then being able to qualify for you know, public service loan forgiveness. Yep. So it took quite some time.
Ian Hoffman 08:19
You know, it took me about a year and a half after starting my own nonprofit, to feel comfortable enough with the process to build the team because I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a CPA. I don't you know, I don't do those things. Yeah, so I need to...
Mischa Zvegintzov 09:13
Yeah.
Mischa Zvegintzov 09:14
So the we throw... love Russell Brunson, right. I love his Dot com secrets, expert secrets, all that stuff. I'm in his his high end coaching group so thriving in there. But what about finding that like what what what was the journey to alright, I can help people. How did you stumble across Russell Brunson? Or was that just was that like someone said, Oh, you have this great idea try this guy? And you're like okay. Or is that was that a? Was that a rocky transition.
Ian Hoffman 09:46
I think that's the genius of Russell Brunson and his marketing. He's really good about getting in front of the right people at the right time.
Mischa Zvegintzov 09:52
Yes.
Ian Hoffman 09:52
You know what I mean? I don't even know how I came across his material. I'm sure I was just searching online for you know how how to "how to launch" or "how to write a webinar", "how to do an online program". And I had come across other you know, other teachers actually before Russell Brunson. And it's really funny. One of the people that I wound up doing a little work with early on, even before Russell Brunson, is Bailey Richert. And I wound up hearing her on a podcast and then reached out to her and I did her in for infopreneur Institute, I think is what it's called. Yes. That was fantastic. So I had other mentors along the way. But you know, and she was she was fantastic.
Mischa Zvegintzov 10:08
You do her Summit, and all that, or No?
Ian Hoffman 10:47
I didn't do her Summit. But she has a an online training. You know, that teaches you how to go from I think almost nothing, just concept idea to just step by step how to how to get your first online program launched.
Mischa Zvegintzov 11:04
Yes. Okay.
Ian Hoffman 11:06
So I did that. And it was fantastic. It really helped me to clarify my vision and who was I serving and those kinds of details. And then it turns out later she wound up working with Russell Brunson. So brand and so it's a really small world in the online marketing space.
Mischa Zvegintzov 11:24
Yeah, fantastic. So so your entry into Russell Brunson land was was Bailey Richert your you take her infopreneur whatever it's called Academy. And, and that's how the idea for the webinar starts to come to fruition and use and you start crafting it there, then you end up in Russell Brunson land is that the?
Ian Hoffman 11:48
The timeline is a little hazy. Because I was doing a lot of things all at the same time. I was trying to educate myself. So I read a book. Also written by a chiropractor, I'm blanking on his name, but it was it's called social media made me rich. And I read, you know, I was really just trying to I was listening to podcasts, reading books, I was really just trying to trying to get an education on this space. So and at the same time, I was even... I live in Carlsbad, California. And there's an amazing podcast called... Oh, man, I'm blanking on the name of it, too. Anyway, there's an amazing podcast on I think it's the "online marketing made simple" or "Made Easy podcast". But she she teaches webinars and her strategies. And so I've gone through multiple iterations of my current webinar.
Ian Hoffman 12:56
I did probably eight or ten live webinars. Recorded them all made little notes. Figured out what questions people were asking, tried to, you know, answer those questions in advance as I kept going. And then finally got to the one where we had a really great response as far as sales and people staying to the end of the webinar. And that one eventually went on evergreen.
Mischa Zvegintzov 13:21
Fantastic. And so is this what we would call a high ticket webinar. So you're trying when I look at your webinar, or your landing page? Yes, reserve my seat now. Great news. It what? I'll tell you exactly what it says plus get a free phone called conflict consultation at the end of the web class. So you're driving phone calls? Or is your... Do you have a do it yourself? Course? A all help you course, I'll do it all for you course? What's your...
Ian Hoffman 14:03
I only have one...
Ian Hoffman 14:04
It's it's not a traditional funnel from the standpoint of like... I only have one offer, and that offer converts. And so really, it's $5,000 to $7,000. And at that, that price point, I think that most people...
Ian Hoffman 14:21
I've had a few people who clicked an ad, they watched the webinar, and they signed up without ever talking to me. And that's super cool. And I was excited about that.
Ian Hoffman 14:32
But the truth is I wanted to also be able to qualify my clients. And so I don't mind jumping on a 15 to 30 minute call with prospects to really get a feel for who they are, make sure their hearts in the right place with all of this. I'm sure that we would work well together. And to answer their questions, make sure that they know that there's a human behind this you know. So My funnel now is different. It changes over time, right? But my funnel now basically is register for the web class, that is the most important first step, because I want people, frankly, to be pre educated before they jump on the call with me. I want them to be able to ask the right questions to at least have a basic understanding of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. About their student loans. About ways that we can help before they get on the call, so that when I get on the call answer questions, then it's a simple conversation of, you know, what's going on? How can I help what questions you have? Let's address those and then sign up?
Mischa Zvegintzov 15:40
Yeah, yeah.
Ian Hoffman 15:41
Yep. Answering all the questions that that you know, you know, the top questions or the top, in sales line, let's call it rebuttals. Right.
Ian Hoffman 15:41
It saves me a lot of time. Because before I was spending between 30 minutes to an hour with each prospect, you know, sometimes multiple phone calls going over the same material. And that's where a webinar is really helpful in in kind of pre educating. And doing the sales process for me.
Ian Hoffman 16:10
Right.
Mischa Zvegintzov 16:11
But let's talk about it from it's more from a service standpoint, though, you're like, hey, I have this vision. This helped me, I want to help you. Not only are is it helping you the doctor, because it's saving you money and clearing debt and relieving stress and all this stuff. At the same time, you get to have a passion project and help the world right? We get satisfaction of the world. Yeah.
Ian Hoffman 16:34
Yeah, for sure. Most most doctors that I talked to, are already doing some form of this.
Ian Hoffman 16:40
I think most people got into health care, because they want to help people. You know that that's been really beautiful for me to see, as I'm talking and consulting with doctors. And it doesn't matter what the degree is dentists, chiropractors, naturopathic doctors, you name it. Most of them are already providing some level of discount or free care for, for people in need. And, and so they're just not doing it through a nonprofit. So we formalize that. We formalize their way of giving back, and they're able to qualify for student loan forgiveness as as a result.
Mischa Zvegintzov 17:16
That's amazing. I love that. That's, it's amazing. I just think it's my favorite thing. My goal is to help people help people, right. I'm like, I'm like, and so to hear you talk about the win win win scenario. That's like the best in the world right now. And I think that's what's genius about Russell Brunson, too, right. He's like, Hey, man, entrepreneurs are the people that are gonna save the world, shall we say, or make it better? Right?
Mischa Zvegintzov 17:44
And, and to have that win win win situation that you have created, or the universe helped you create, however you want to say it? Is, is beautiful. And inspiring. So thank you. I have a quick question. Your frustration? Well, I want to start with the who, what? Not the how, because that's such a powerful concept. Building the team, and you set it like it was easy. Oh, yeah. I just needed to build the team and make this happen. Yeah, well, no, maybe you're like, I'll do this myself. And quickly, you realize this is going to be a here a Herculean effort. I need help or tell me about that sort of process?
Ian Hoffman 18:26
Sure.
Ian Hoffman 18:26
Well, I mean, I, I think it's a matter of, of taking inventory and knowing yourself and your strengths and what you're good at and what you enjoy. And also, what do you not want to do? What do you not enjoy? What what lowers your energy. And so for me, I love writing. So writing the copy, writing the webinar, that...I enjoyed that process. But I didn't want to take on even the the the responsibility of filing these tax forms with the IRS and filing the articles of incorporation. And that legal work is something I knew nothing about and didn't really, I wasn't motivated to learn. So it's also it's also that is finding out, you know, where are the gaps between where you are and where you want to be. And then filling in those gaps, either by educating yourself and then doing it or if you find that you're not motivated, you need to find someone else who that's what they do. So, so I wound up originally working with the the firm that started my own nonprofit, I brought this to them and they said, great, and we brought that to really to, to the scale that they could handle. They were a smaller firm, and then I wound up finding a bigger firm to work with and, you know, wound up transitioning over. But yeah, I mean, I think that's the process is just knowing yourself and what you love and trying to to do that.
Mischa Zvegintzov 20:03
Okay, did you formalize that? Or was that all sort of intuitive for you? And when I say that I mean, did you? Were you like, Did you literally sit down and write out? Okay, this is what I'm good at. This is what I need help with? Or was it? Yeah, go?
Mischa Zvegintzov 20:19
I didn't do that I really, I wrote out kind of the curriculum and the steps of "what's the client's journey?" Right.
Mischa Zvegintzov 20:30
So once I, once I really went through the process of, okay, here's my modules, here's my, my, my system, my formula for the big promise of start a nonprofit and qualify for student loan forgiveness. What are the steps that people need to go through along that journey to really get that end end result that I'm trying to promise people? And then I was able to really clearly see what part of those steps can I teach? What can I help people with? What can we do for them? And then what do I need help with? You know, where can I fill in the gaps with other services?
Mischa Zvegintzov 21:09
Hmm, beautiful. Thank you. That's it. Thank you for that. Question in regards to Avatar. You mentioned that and everybody watching and listening avatar is "speak" for "your perfect customer". The "the exact person you want to work with". I know for a lot of us, for me, that's an elusive concept, or can be shifting or, or the conversations I keep having are make it super narrow. And so I'll go super narrow, and then the people that are telling me to go narrow, inevitably say that's too narrow, or I get so tell me about your avatar process.
Mischa Zvegintzov 21:47
Totally. I'm a big believer in you know, for me personally, it was it was a little easier, I think, than some because I am my avatar. You know, I was a doctor with six figures of student debt. And you know there are doctors with multiple, many multiple six figures of student loan debt. And so my avatar was was really anyone who... they I've worked with people that are not doctors, but really my avatar is anyone with over six figures of student loan debt who has a has a service based business.
Ian Hoffman 22:28
So, that's, that's the most general avatar. But the people who have the most student loan debt naturally are doctors and lawyers. You know, people who went to grad school. So that's, that's where it went.
Mischa Zvegintzov 22:28
Okay.
Ian Hoffman 22:28
But the reason it's so important to have an avatar is because, um, you know, along this process of building a funnel, building a business, one of the most important aspects of that is where am I going to get traffic? How am I going to put my ads in front of the right people? And so for me, I know I can get my ads in front of chiropractors, naturopathic doctors, dentists, physical therapists, osteopathic doctors. You know, those are my vertical markets. And in unless you have that avatar specifically drawn out, it's really hard to target.
Mischa Zvegintzov 22:28
Hmm.
Mischa Zvegintzov 23:20
And then then the ad process just is too inefficient. It did you can't you? Is that a good way to say it?
Mischa Zvegintzov 23:29
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, who wants to pay for ads that go to the wrong person that's not even interested? Or a qualified lead?
Mischa Zvegintzov 23:37
Yeah. Yeah. How was that? How was the do you do the ads? Or did you bring in? Did you bring in a who to do that for you?
Ian Hoffman 23:46
I've done both what I what I tend to do in my journey, my learning process is I want to learn as much as I can and try it myself first, and then hire an expert, so that I know what questions to ask. I know, I can get to a certain point, they better beat me. You know, they're going to get better results than I did if they're doing this as a professional. So you know, that's just how I am. Yeah. So that's how I started. I did really well, early on in Facebook ads. But then it became complicated because Facebook changed their marketing policy really related to student loan type advertising. And yeah, I mean, that people talk all the time about Facebook slaps and Google Slaps,
Mischa Zvegintzov 24:30
Google slaps. Yeah. You had one! Tell me about it...
Ian Hoffman 24:34
So yeah, it happened. And so then, you know, again, it's the who not the how I didn't want to become a Facebook ads specialist on top of everything else I was doing. So then you find the right team who can get you back where you want to be.
Mischa Zvegintzov 24:46
And so was that a? Was that an overnight crack on the side of the head like your business effectively shut down?
Ian Hoffman 24:54
I wouldn't say it shut down.
Ian Hoffman 24:55
So that that is actually the power of having an email list. right? So that's where I'm really glad that I was collecting emails for people who joined my webinar, because there were a lot of people on my email list who didn't bought who hadn't bought. And so what I was able to do once traffic shut down, you know, as I was working on getting that back up with ads... I had an email list of about 4000 Doctors by that point. So I really started emailing my list more frequently. And getting them back engaged and, you know, sending them more information. And really just being more active with that. And that was able to drive sales for a considerable amount of time, as you know, rebuilding the apps.
Mischa Zvegintzov 25:44
That's fantastic. So let's dive into this email list a little bit. Are... You have a nurture campaign, which means do you email consistently? Or is it? So there's that question? And do you outsource that process that process or tell me about your nurturing of your list?
Ian Hoffman 26:07
Yeah, I don't outsource that... I do... I enjoy writing. That's one of the things that I enjoy. So for me, and I think those emails are so... those are really important. And I want people to get that kind of information directly from the source. Directly from me. So I don't I don't hire out for that. And I also...
Ian Hoffman 26:35
I can probably be better about this. But when there's news when there's, you know, especially in 2021, there's been a lot of news, political news related to student loans.
Ian Hoffman 26:53
President Biden has already raised billions of dollars of student loan debt that President Trump never did for people who have, you know, for example, who were defrauded by their schools. And their schools shut down... they didn't get the you know, their degree. Or for people who have a total and permanent disability, now they can get student loan forgiveness. And so I follow these these things in the in the world of student loans. And I send, you know, information as it comes up to my list.
Ian Hoffman 27:17
One of the most recent developments in the world of public service loan forgiveness is that... before there were there was a very low acceptance rate into the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. Hovering around 2%, actually, which is terrible. And that's because yeah, there are three requirements to qualify. There's actually four different types of federal student loans. Only one type qualifies for this program. There, there are like nine different repayment plan options. Five of those are income driven repayment, those are the ones that qualify. And then you had to have qualifying employment with the government or nonprofit.
Ian Hoffman 27:57
And the student loan industry is so complex. I personally believe it's designed to confuse so that people overpay. I mean, that's just that's just what it is. Right?
Mischa Zvegintzov 28:08
Yes.
Ian Hoffman 28:08
So unfortunately, unless people have done the homework and the research, like I did to say, most people don't even know what type of student loans they have, let's start there. So 15% of PSLF denials were because people just didn't have the right type of student loans. And they weren't being told that there's a free process that can turn any of the other types of federal student loans into the type that qualifies.
Ian Hoffman 28:32
So that's the first step with my program, I look at what type of loans they have, what repayment plan they're in, and we make sure that they meet those first two requirements. But because the program was so messed up... recently, there, I think it was President Biden or the administration said, "we're gonna we're gonna, you know, wipe away those first two requirements".
Ian Hoffman 28:54
So now any type of student loans and on any repayment plan, as long as you're a government and nonprofit employee, you can qualify for Public Service Loan Forgiveness right now. So they actually made it easier than ever before, to to enroll in this this program.
Mischa Zvegintzov 29:11
Wow. That's amazing. So you're disseminating information like that to your list and useful information. And obviously, strangely, it's either a blessing or a curse. You're fascinated by the by the, by the student loan process.
Ian Hoffman 29:29
Yeah. That was originally fascinated by it. But you know, I think originally when I, when I went to try to get my first mortgage, I was told that my income was good, but my debt to income ratio was all messed up because of the student loans.
Mischa Zvegintzov 29:45
Yeah.
Ian Hoffman 29:45
So I really got inspired to understand my student loans so that they didn't hold me back in life. You know what I mean? And then and then meeting that little girl with stage for cancer and everything else that came after it really was You know, the universe or something aligned? Yeah. To help this this product, this service come to fruition?
Mischa Zvegintzov 30:08
Yeah, I don't mean to go political, but I'm going to it almost seems to me, and I've had this thought that that a lot of these schools were, literally were created as a vehicle to create student loan debt. Right. Like, almost people with lots of money, we're like, we want to, we want to, you know, collateralize debt or securitized debt obligations, or whatever, you know, the bond market, right. And so they're like, alright, we got we want student loans, we can, the government will subsidize it. Right? So they got you got venture capitalists with billions of dollars that want to create CDOs, or collateralized debt obligations? There we go. And so they're like, how can we do this? This is just a theory. I don't mean to you, maybe you could speak to that for a second. You know, it's like,
Ian Hoffman 31:11
Yeah,
Mischa Zvegintzov 31:12
Yeah it's like... go ahead...
Ian Hoffman 31:14
I mean, I have heard a few different, you know, theories as far as the student debt crisis in America and how it came to happen. And, you know... I think that what we do know, is that part of the issue is that tuision, has just gone up and up and up and up far faster than the cost than the then the salaries that the degrees people are being trained in provide. And so...
Ian Hoffman 31:50
But the reason that they're doing that is because the schools know what someone can borrow. So if someone can borrow $10,000 a quarter, you know...They're gonna make their tuition, you know, whatever the the the very minimum that somebody can can have for, you know, room and board.
Mischa Zvegintzov 32:10
Yes.
Ian Hoffman 32:11
That, you know, plus tuition is $10,000. So, you know, that's, I think that's more of the issue is that it's not, it's not commensurate with what, what someone can expect to earn from that degree. It's not...
Ian Hoffman 32:30
There's a lot of unethical practices, I would say, but most importantly, is just that people aren't being educated on the responsibilities that they're taking on... when... you know, if... If I was 20, I'm trying to think of when I when I started at chiropractic school, graduated high school at 18. College at 22.
Ian Hoffman 33:00
So if I was 22 years old, and I went to try to get a mortgage for six figures, yeah, you know, there's no way but sure, you, we can give you six figures, you know, of debt for for college, right. So and it's an it's that it's a, it's a trap unfortunately, for a lot of people. I'm I'm, I value my education to no end. And I would do whatever it took to repay my debt. And and I was on that path. I was, you know, whether it was making my monthly payments, and then paying the tax bill. Or earning more and paying it off more quickly, I would have done whatever I could, it wasn't about getting out of the debt.
Mischa Zvegintzov 33:43
Yes.
Ian Hoffman 33:44
But the fact that there's a federal program out there, that would erase my debt, because I was helping more people and providing a public service. I was all after that.
Mischa Zvegintzov 33:54
I love it. That's a great, great way to frame it, you are committed to like, Hey, I have this debt. If I took it on, I'm willing to be responsible for it. I as a matter of fact, I'm trying to pay it off sooner. So I can be a responsible consumer or whatever, you know, like... Reduce the lifetime interest on the damn thing or stuff. Right. Like and, and, yeah. But then you figure out an ethical way. I didn't even think about this. The you're like, oh, wait a minute, like, I'm trying to be responsible. Here's an alt solution to be responsible. And yeah, it's beautiful. Did I frame that right? Or did I say that right?
Ian Hoffman 34:35
Yeah, you did. You know, and, and...
Ian Hoffman 34:35
Why are we bailing out banks at three quarters of 1%? When a student who wants to become educated and become a doctor, we're gonna put them into student debt slavery for the rest of their life? You know, it doesn't make sense. So I do you feel, in some senses like Robin Hood you know... Trying to... cuz the student loan industry is huge.
Ian Hoffman 34:35
There's $1.5 trillion of student loan debt out there. It's more than credit cards and car loans combined. So it affects 45 million Americans, it's a huge issue. And that's why I feel really good about helping people to sleep better at night to get that student loan monkey off their back and to give back in the process.
Ian Hoffman 34:37
I go back to you know, you asked about the the student loan industry as a whole and I think what's crazy is when the banks needed a bailout, the federal government gave them that bailout at 0.75% interest rate. When I got my student loans, it was 6.8%.
Mischa Zvegintzov 34:58
Oh my god.
Ian Hoffman 34:59
So why that that feels backwards to me. Right?
Mischa Zvegintzov 35:45
Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you for that. Let me ask you a question. As far as like, internally, you you're coming across these these professionals, medical professionals. Who are, you know, who have this burden who are trying to do the right thing and have a they're kind of doing the philanthropic thing, they might not even know it it sounds like right. They have the activities and and you can wrap that, that nonprofit around it. What's like, the thing that, that they're thinking in their head that they're like, this doesn't make sense. What What's that? What's that? You know, what I'm saying? Like, how do you what is that thing that that, that that doctor in that situation internally is like, Yeah, but like, what's that thing?
Ian Hoffman 36:35
Regarding my program?
Mischa Zvegintzov 36:36
Yeah, regarding your program.
Mischa Zvegintzov 36:39
Yeah, like that internal, where they're like, they're thinking, like, well... I can't do it. Or I don't have the time. Or what is the what's like, what, what's the thing that stops people from taking advantage of this amazing thing internally? I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Right.
Ian Hoffman 36:54
Like, I mean, I think most often, it's that we have this silly phrase that, you know, if something sounds too good to be true, right? So I do hear that... And you know...there...
Ian Hoffman 37:06
Unfortunately, it's an industry where there are there are some scams out there, there are people taking advantage. And so I understand when my clients have questions, and they want to do their due diligence, and that's why I stopped selling the program directly from the webinar. And I want people to get on the phone with me. Because I want them to hear my heart and my purpose behind this. And I want to make sure that they're aligned with that. And I want to make sure that they understand that it's not me personally offering to forgive their student loan debt. And they do have responsibilities when they decide to join my program. They have to run the nonprofit, effectively. They have to learn the difference between how to run a nonprofit versus a for profit. We do all that training. But you know, there, I have this great quote, from www.nonprofitquarterly.org.
Ian Hoffman 38:03
They said six months of executive training for nonprofit professionals to on compliance costs between $4,000-$30,000. And that's included in my program, because I want people not just to help them start a nonprofit, I want them to be trained, so they can run it effectively in compliance with state and, and federal regulations. And so they're that means that they are taking on a different responsibility. Instead of paying their student loan debt, they need to know that they are now going to learn how to run a nonprofit, and how to do that effectively, how to avoid conflicts of interest, and how to, you know, to meet the specific requirements for public service loan forgiveness.
Mischa Zvegintzov 38:51
So you help them do all that.
Ian Hoffman 38:53
We help them do all of that.
Mischa Zvegintzov 38:55
Is that like the biggest, the biggest sort of outside issue that that that a medical professional is going to feel when they when they come across this idea? Your your student loan? I forgot the name, I'm sorry, student loans eraser.
Ian Hoffman 39:11
Yes.
Mischa Zvegintzov 39:12
Is that is that is that the is that like the thing where they're like, wait a minute, this sounds too good to be true. But then they get you on the phone and they feel your heart? And they say, oh, no, this is real. I can do this. But then they're like, oh, there's this outside stuff. Like, is it that compliance piece? Or is it is it well, my wife's gonna think I'm crazy or what? What's that?
Ian Hoffman 39:34
So first, it's too good to be true. And then it's, it's the other two big ones time and money. Right. So how much is this going to cost? And how long is it going to take for me to get it set up? What are my time requirements in running the nonprofit? You know, what are those things look like? So those are all important questions that most people have. That I addressed to a certain extent on the webinar, because I know everyone has those questions. Yeah, but then we We go deeper on the phone calls.
Mischa Zvegintzov 40:01
Okay, cool, cool, cool. And what's the what's like the epiphany moment for them where they're like, oh, my gosh, I have to do this.
Ian Hoffman 40:09
Yeah, um...
Ian Hoffman 40:09
Most people know they have to do it when when they look at how much student loan debt they have. You know, when they look at their options. Because you know, the truth is... I break it down.
Ian Hoffman 40:09
There's three, three ways to get out of your student loan debt, right? Number one, you can pay for 25 years, well, let's say four years, you can pay it off. But when you have multiple six figures of student loan debt, most people cannot do that in, you know, in a reasonable amount of time. Number two, you can go on an income driven plan, make the minimum payment for 25 years and save for that tax bill. That's, that's the way a lot of people go. Number three, you can qualify for public service, loan forgiveness, and get it erased in half the time tax free. That's the option I provide. And number four is die trying, you know, those, those really are the options. So between those four options, when you really break it down, people are able to see that, you know, if I can get out of debt in less than half the time tax free. That's really the way to go.
Mischa Zvegintzov 41:23
Thank you for answering. I want to know how many times did you almost quit in this process? How many times were you like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And then the next day like, I can't do this another day? Yes. Because it's so hard building this.
Ian Hoffman 41:40
Yeah, I will say that I almost quit a few times before my first launch. Once I did my first launch. i i I've never looked back. So the first the the first year was really a challenge because that's when I was still full time in practice. Still, you know how to have had a new family. You know, a lot lots of obligations. And I wasn't sleeping much because I was trying to get this thing off the ground. So it was stressful. It was stressful for sure. Plus, you know, I was running a for profit and nonprofit, you know, so I had a lot going on. And I did I did get to a few points where I'm like, What am I doing? What Why? Why am I doing this? Right? Yeah.
Ian Hoffman 42:32
But, uh, then I looked at that little girl with stage four cancer, you know, and I remembered my why. And she's now December of this year, she'll be six years cancer free. When we first met, she was as bald as me now her hair is as long as yours, you know. So yeah. And so now I realized that the the impact is what drives me my clients are taking care of over 10,000 nonprofit visits a month. Which is amazing. So yeah, I wanted to quit early on. But...
Mischa Zvegintzov 43:09
Oh my god, thank you for that. Say that, again, what your nonprofit is doing what Say that again.
Ian Hoffman 43:13
So fast forward now. In the five and a half for six years or so that I've been teaching this. We by the end of this year will have started over 400 charities, and those doctors are going to save over $100 million. And they're taking care of over 10,000 nonprofit patient visits per month. So those are the numbers that are important to me. Oh no, I know that as those numbers grow, so too, so does income.
Mischa Zvegintzov 43:43
You know what? I I literally wrote this down. And I wrote down it's an effort to create something like this. You deserve a standing ovation. Right? Just for the fact that no truly I mean, and I'm not even talking that's just on the creation and now that I hear like your impact. Oh my gosh, I just I you know... I need the... what I was gonna say is I need an applause but I need the standing ovation applause button. So what great inspiration. um, so are you you're not chiropractic anymore? Or you do it a little bit or what's going on there?
Ian Hoffman 44:22
I'm not I'm not I really miss it. And so you know, one day I hope to have a little office with a box on the wall "Pay What You Can" you know that that kind of thing. That's That's my dream retirement. But for now...
Ian Hoffman 44:39
I also know that the the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program in and of itself is probably not going to be around forever. There's there's been over a million people that have submitted their employment certification form. There's a lot of interest in this program as complex and difficult you know, as as it is. And so Every year in office President Trump asked Congress to close enrollment in public service loan forgiveness. And they never did. But it put the program on the chopping block where... there was always a grandfathering clause that said, once you're once you're enrolled, and once you have your student loans...they're not trying to take it away from anyone who is already enrolled. But they would close enrollment from that point forward to not let the program continue to grow. And Congress never changed it. They never they never did that. So the program survived. President Biden seems very in favor of all of the student loan forgiveness programs, including public service, loan forgiveness. And they're making great strides to fix it and make it easier for people. So, you know, political shifts can change. And, you know, I'm, I'm in this for as long as I can be.
Mischa Zvegintzov 45:58
Does it keep you up at night at all? Are you ever Are you ever or do you have a connection or a trust factor that like, if this evaporates, "I know there's next"?
Ian Hoffman 46:08
Yeah, you know, the cool thing is that, because I was fortunate enough, I wound up getting a to two comma Club Award. This program, which was super fun, I got to shake Russell Brunson. And it was amazing. And, and get on stage at Funnel Hacking live in front of 1000s and 1000s of people.
Mischa Zvegintzov 46:26
Yeah,
Mischa Zvegintzov 46:27
What year was that? What year was that?
Ian Hoffman 46:29
2019.
Mischa Zvegintzov 46:29
Yeah, not Nashville was that which was Nashville? Yes. Yeah. Congratulations, another applause button.
Ian Hoffman 46:38
Thanks. That was super fun and a cool accomplishment. But since then, I think just naturally, you know, people hear about that. They find me online, somehow through to comic club or whatever. They I've had people reach out to me and ask me for help. Because they're trying to get an online program launch. They're trying to write a webinar, they're trying to go through this process. And the most common thing I hear is, I don't know what to do first. Okay, even if I do that, what do I do next? And so I've really had fun taking on a handful of select clients. That, you know, are people who are doing something that I really believe in. That are making the world better. That are helping people with their product or service. And, you know, I've helped a couple of them get to market, get on Click Funnels and, and develop their, their funnel. So I do some of that coaching. And I think that if, if Public Service Loan Forgiveness went away overnight, I would probably have a lot of fun getting into that more.
Mischa Zvegintzov 47:47
Yeah, yeah, great, what a gift. But how cool is that? To know that that can shift there if necessary, or wherever the universe is going to take you. Or however you...
Ian Hoffman 48:01
Yeah totally.
Mischa Zvegintzov 48:02
Yeah, that's super cool. Any upsells down cells along the way you have? Or are you? Or do you have like progression for your doctors? So you have your first $5000 to $7,000? Class? Is there a next step for them? Or no, you're pretty focused on that.
Ian Hoffman 48:26
There, there's not. There's no upsell, so to speak, as far as as that's concerned. But I do remember reading about how important it is to have a continuity funnel to have monthly recurring revenue instead of just one chunk at a time. And so I got together about two years ago now with the team that I use to do the legal work. So they write the articles of incorporation and bylaws send that to the state, they send the required documents to the IRS. And so they have a great team.
Ian Hoffman 49:00
And we put together a compliance program for my clients. Where we call it the "hands free 501 C three maintenance program". And so that includes help with bookkeeping, payroll, state and federal tax returns, help with their board meetings. You know, compliance questions, all of that. And really it that it's $157 a month, we tried to keep it really affordable. And it's it's an option. Some of my clients choose to keep their nonprofit, very low budget, and they do all those things themselves. But for the ones who are really busy, the ones who their nonprofit can afford it. We do have that as I would say kind of an upsell.
Ian Hoffman 49:48
And then as a down sell. The first step in this whole process is making sure that people have the the first two requirements. They have the right type of student loans. And they're on an income driven repayment plan with the lowest possible monthly payment, because that helps us maximize their savings and cash flow.
Ian Hoffman 50:08
And so I do a custom student loan plan. For people who are on the fence, they're like, show me my numbers, how much can I save? Before I sign up, so that sometimes I have specials, that's usually somewhere between $297 and $497. But you know, that's a great way for people to get their numbers and see how much they're going to save before they jump into the full program. So really, it's about twice a year, I'll send some emails, you know, telling people about the the custom student loan plan. And that works great as well.
Mischa Zvegintzov 50:46
Fantastic. Thank you for answering it. And I next interview, I'm going to ask it more delicately because upsell and down sell can sound a little salesy, right. But really, oh, here's an added value. If you're a busy, medical professional, and you're, you're cranking away at your business, and you've created this nonprofit that's thriving. Or maybe more than they anticipated, or something, you're like, hey, we can we can maintain your compliance on a on a monthly basis. So you don't have to worry about it. It's beautiful. Right? Versus, and then you've also got, hey, someone's not ready to feel like you know what, I think I'll just start with like, let's clean up my my student loan debt, let's just clean it up a little bit. Make sure I'm maximizing, you know, interest rates and all that sort of stuff. Yeah?
Ian Hoffman 51:38
Sure.
Mischa Zvegintzov 51:38
Yes. Great.
Ian Hoffman 51:39
There are people that that start there. And I show them that they can lower their their payments enough where it pays for the full program in and of itself within two years, or whatever that is. So it's just a nice way to help people save money and provide value quickly. And then if they choose to get started with the full program, great. If not, they've had a great interaction with me. And hopefully they saved a ton of money.
Mischa Zvegintzov 52:07
Yeah, fantastic. And I'm looking over here a little bit as a, as we're talking, I'm looking at your landing page, the introduction to the webinar. And there was something I saw on there about a group, there's you do you have a group associated with this? Where? Yeah,
Ian Hoffman 52:25
Yeah, so all my clients, one of the bonuses that they get is access to a private Facebook group. We have, I think there's, there's over 200 doctors in that group at this point, it might be 250 At this point. But it's, it's a way for them to share resources and provide community support. Sometimes someone will find an article, even though I stay really up to date with the political stuff regarding student loans. Sometimes they find things before me, and they post it there, and then I get a chance to comment. So they're, you know, people will have questions about anything, you know, related to their student loans or related to the nonprofit, and we get to provide community support, share referrals, resources that way.
Mischa Zvegintzov 53:14
Cool. What's sort of the coolest thing you've seen on the group? Where you're like, Whoa, I didn't expect that. That was amazing.
Ian Hoffman 53:21
Yeah. Um, to be honest, it was like, it was a, it was a fear that turned into a really cool, powerful moment. So I had somebody who posted that they were flagged for an IRS audit. And it was something that was totally unrelated to their student loans and to the nonprofit. But they wound up posting, you know, as they went through the process that the IRS, the nonprofit that we started for them got looked at, and it passed with flying colors. There were no the IRS had no issues with the setup or with with any part of that. So that was fantastic for everyone in the group to see. We cross our T's we dot our I's we teach it a certain way.
Mischa Zvegintzov 54:10
Yes.
Ian Hoffman 54:11
We do that because you know that that's the way to do it.
Mischa Zvegintzov 54:15
Yeah.
Ian Hoffman 54:16
There's, there's only one way in my opinion, if you're going to go down this path, and that's the right
Mischa Zvegintzov 54:21
way. That's beautiful. Ian, thank you so much. Um, I had one other question. It just escaped me. Um, maybe that means we should be done.
Mischa Zvegintzov 54:32
Oh, but I wanted to tell anybody watching and, and listening. Either go into the show notes or click below www.erasemystudent loans.com click on that link. And you can check out the webinar and just get all the quality information and if it makes sense and you want to reorganize your debt or start a nonprofit help save the world and wipe it off the books or or what have you click on that link and learn. I guess my next question is, is there like a breakeven point you have? So if someone's got, like $10,000, in student loan debt, obviously, you know what? Probably not, I'm not your guy, is it? Like, right? That's what's that number and above?
Ian Hoffman 55:19
It's not so much a specific number of an amount of student loan debt, although I will give you that number. Um, it's, it's their debt relative to their income, because, for example, if they have $50,000 of student loan debt, but they have no income, than the $50,000 is still gonna be there. Plus interest 10 years from now? Yes. Right. So, you know, that's why it's related to their income, versus if they have $50,000 of student loan debt, and they make $250,000 a year, they're gonna pay that off before they qualify for forgiveness, right. So that's why it's it's debt relative to their income. And for the most part, I would say, you know, if you're, if your monthly payment is at or below interest, meaning, if your debt is not going down, yes, then we that's how we know that this might be a good option for you. And I would say that, at a minimum, I typically want to see somewhere between $50,000 and $70,000, of student loan debt, you know, to take on a client. However, I have, I have had clients that have $750,000 of student loan debt. So it's no joke, you know, as as a naturopathic doctors right now are graduating with $400,000. Dentists are graduating with $400,000.
Mischa Zvegintzov 56:47
What!?
Ian Hoffman 56:48
And some people have multiple degrees. So yeah, and then, you know, on top of, let's say, You graduated with $400,000 of student loan debt, and you didn't have a substantial income right out of school, five years later, that might be significantly higher. So that's why we start to see people who have half a million dollar plus a, you know, that's that those are really my favorite clients, because there's no way they're paying that off, you know, unfortunately.
Mischa Zvegintzov 57:22
Unfortunately, so they could actually be thriving as a practice and have a ton of income, but that the burden of that debt is just... It's heavy, right? Like it. Especially if you're growing a family and doing all that and have a house, totally things.
Ian Hoffman 57:38
There are statistic statistics now on student debt related suicides, and student debt related divorces, and student I mean, it's just, it's miserable. Um, so, you know, I would say, for anyone in those kinds of positions, um, you know, there's help.
Mischa Zvegintzov 57:57
That's amazing. Um, and so I just want to recap, one thing, if what I'm hearing you say is, if someone's making a million dollars a year, and they have $100,000, in loan debt, and they have no other debt, like that's not your guy, because they can just effectively pay it off. Quick anyway, right, like, pay it off, versus going through the hoops of paying me all this stuff? Is that effectively what I heard you say?
Ian Hoffman 58:21
Correct. Um, that being said, I do have clients who are earning in excess of $250,000 a year, so. But, again, if you're earning debt load, but you have half a million dollars of debt, that's why it's not just a picture of how much debt you have. It's debt and income,
Mischa Zvegintzov 58:39
I get it. It's like the debt to income ratio, if you wanted to call it like that. Right? And it's, it's the whole debt to income ratio, right? Like by the time you have your car payment in there, maybe some credit card payments in there, and maybe some, right when you put the whole picture together. It's like yeah, you could be making a lot but but that total that load? Okay, you've answered the question. I don't mean to brow that any brow beat that anymore? Did you want to clarify there? Because I didn't mean to dilute that message. If I did,
Ian Hoffman 59:07
No, no worries. And and I'm happy to have people check out the web class, make sure that this is something that they want to pursue, get the information and if they're not sure, on their those numbers, you know, jump on a call with me, we can always start with the custom student loan plan. That's why I have that option to run the numbers for them.
Ian Hoffman 59:27
And I also provide two money back guarantees in my program because I want to make it a no brainer. So the first guarantee is that after they sign up, when I do the first step, and I look at what type of loans they have, what repayment plan they're in, I estimate how much they can expect to save by qualifying for public service loan forgiveness. And if I can't provide a you know, an estimate of 1,000% return on their investment, you know, basically meaning. The program itself is is $5000 If we if I'm not going to show them that they're going to qualify for at least $50,000 in savings, then I give them an opportunity to have a refund.
Ian Hoffman 1:00:10
And then the second guarantee that I make is that one, it's their responsibility from that point forward to complete the steps in the student loan eraser and go through the course and with my help and guidance, but once they complete the process, I the last step is that they send a document to the Department of Education, letting them know that they now have qualified employment, and they get a letter back saying, letting them know how many payments they've made, or how much how many months they have that count towards public service, loan forgiveness. So they know they're in. If they get denied, they get we work with them until they get approved or they get a refund. So it has to work or I don't feel that I deserve to keep the payment.
Mischa Zvegintzov 1:00:53
That's amazing. That is amazing. That's amazing. And thank you for explaining it that way. That's that's clear and concise. Like that's almost if you fit if you fit the person that can use help that needs they can they can get you can help clean up their their debt load serve community. like they fit that model. If you aren't able to come through it's not it's it's a no lose situation. That's That's powerful. Wow. I know you're a busy guy. I know you've got a son out there still and all that and so I want to I want you to let you get back to your day. But I want to tell everybody again, erase my I'm looking at it. It's a beautiful it's a beautiful landing page very concise, easy to easy to figure out what to do https://www.erasemystudentloans.com/ The link will be in the show notes as well but absolutely click on it. And just the impact I'm I just getting the chills by the impact I just that you're bringing is really truly beautiful and inspirational. So thank you for that. Ian. Dr. Ian Hoffman. I'm gonna hit stop, and then we'll say goodbye offline.
Ian Hoffman 1:02:18
Okay. All right. Thank you, Mischa, I appreciate the opportunity.
Mischa Zvegintzov 1:02:20
Indeed. Cheers.