Rick Hayhurst has been a manual therapist for 28 years and counting! And a teacher of teachers in the manual therapy arena. What that means is he knows how to help people “heal”. Mentally, physically, and emotionally. His surprisingly simple step 1 “the gift of noticing”. Most people, it seems, do everything in their power other than notice. Listen in. You will be enlightened.
Rick Hayhurst has been a manual therapist for 28 years and counting! And a teacher of teachers in the manual therapy arena. What that means is he knows how to help people “heal”. Mentally, physically, and emotionally. His surprisingly simple step 1 “the gift of noticing”. Most people, it seems, do everything in their power other than notice. Listen in. You will be enlightened.
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Transcript:
[music]
0:00:05.9 Mischa Zvegintzov: Welcome back, everybody, to the Tools for a Good Life Summit, and right now, I would like to introduce to you, Rick Hayhurst. Welcome, Rick.
0:00:17.5 Rick Hayhurst: Hello, hello, hello.
0:00:19.6 Mischa Z: Fantastic, welcome. I'm gonna read your bio real quick. So, Rick, you have been a manual therapist for about 38 years. I believe we hammered it out and decided it was 28 years. You've been a... Yup... You've been a coach for about 28 years as well. You've created and developed six different massage therapy schools. You have produced multiple continuing education programs, and this is for the manual therapy arena. Correct?
0:00:52.8 Rick Hayhurst: Yes.
0:00:53.1 Mischa Z: And you find yourself quite boring.
0:00:57.7 Rick Hayhurst: Yes. Very uninteresting. [chuckle] A perfect coach. Yes.
0:01:06.3 Mischa Z: I just wanna get right to it. So I think that... I want to know... You've been in manual therapies, and so when we talk about manual therapies, there's obviously massage, things like that. What else fits into manual therapies, when you say manual therapies?
0:01:22.5 Rick Hayhurst: Anything that manipulates tissue. So if you think about... The chiropractor is a manual therapist, he's working manual... The physical therapist is a manual therapist. Anaprapath is a manual therapist. A massage therapist is a manual therapist. There are manual therapies that don't fit in those categories, so they're actually just manual therapists... They're called manual therapists.
0:01:45.7 Mischa Z: Okay. And so, you tend to be more along the lines of the manual therapists that are manipulating tissues, then.
0:01:51.8 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, yeah, in fact, the DO is a manual therapist, the doctor who has a DO designation, Doctor of Osteopathy, they actually learn osteopathic manipulations. So...
0:02:01.9 Mischa Z: Oh cool.
0:02:03.3 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah. So some of the continuing education programs that I run, have included all of those modalities. So not just one or the other, but... And pain management has been my study and also what I've produced over time. So in any case, those are manual therapies.
0:02:21.8 Mischa Z: Cool. Thank you. Thank you for answering that question. And I noted for you, that you... Transformational massage and body work. And so, I think someone such as myself who maybe has been a bit... In my younger years, was a bit... What's the word? I don't know if... Skeptical... So not contemptuous, but skeptical of the usefulness of massage... Like, transformational, I would think. I'm not sure if that's something I would say about massage or other sorts of body work. But as I've gotten to where I am today, mentally and then emotionally, I'm like, "Oh yeah, we as humans, we hold a lot of stuff energetically, inside, that would be awesome if we could release it, via some transformational massage and body work." And I know you're gonna say yes to that. So my question to you is, tell me some before and afters that you've seen, with some of your clients, of like... Yeah, this was the state they came in. This is... We did. And this is where they are.
0:03:40.2 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah. Such a great conversation to have. Really, what is the story your body is telling? What is that story? And every body is telling a story. The story your body is telling may or may not be the same story your mouth is telling. And so to really get into the distinction between what is the story the body is telling as a result of what is the energy that I'm holding. What is the trauma that I'm holding? You know, a ballet dancer is telling one story and then the person on the couch who hasn't moved for 30 years is telling... That body is telling a different story.
0:04:18.1 Rick Hayhurst: And it's no judgment about one or the other, it's just a story that the body tells. And so when you think about the before and after of a transformational session... So fundamentally, I'm a coach. Fundamentally, I'm an educator, I'm a coach. I've been educating my whole professional life and coaching people through experiences of trauma, often, all of that time. So when you think about putting a session together for someone who has a body that's telling a story... So one story would be headaches. A woman walks in my room... Excuse me, "I've had headaches for 40 years, and I don't know what you're gonna do for me."
0:04:56.3 Rick Hayhurst: And she's a little bit angry.
0:04:58.0 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:05:00.4 Rick Hayhurst: And I said, "Well, I'm not gonna do anything for you because that presentation doesn't allow me to." I just wanna honor where you are and where you are is like, "I've had headaches for 40 years, and what are you gonna do about it?" Well, I'm not gonna do anything about it. But I'm gonna invite you to do something about it. And is that... Are you ready for that? Because maybe she's not. You gotta understand that 40 years of headaches and identity, it's not just a headache, it's an identity. And it's a story that lives inside of that person, and that's expressed in the body of that person.
0:05:32.2 Rick Hayhurst: Now, if you look at where the body is, the body is a vehicle in life, so that lives in her life. Headaches live in her life. So if you wanna unravel that, you have to get that you're unraveling a life. You're unraveling an identity. So let me just check in with you. How is that occurring for you as I'm saying that?
0:05:51.7 Mischa Z: I like it... Well, I don't like it, but I like it. I'm not sure if I'm answering the question.
0:06:02.2 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, so, like it or not, what is it saying to you? What's occurring inside of your own body as you're hearing me say like 40 years... What are you gonna do about it? How is it occurring for you as I'm just being that person who's holding that space, that's saying, "I'm not gonna do anything about it."
0:06:16.3 Mischa Z: Yeah, meaning... So you're asking me like if I were to hear, "Hey, Mischa, what are you gonna do about this?" Is that... Am I understanding that right?
0:06:27.9 Rick Hayhurst: So we'll edit this out.
0:06:28.9 Mischa Z: Yes...
0:06:33.5 Rick Hayhurst: Yes. So... And then... And take two. So the gift of having that person who comes in who says, "I've got 40 years, what are you gonna do about it?" Healing happens on the inside. So healing is our responsibility. What are we gonna do to heal ourselves? Now, we look outside of ourselves for support for practitioners, therapists, etcetera. We look outside for the coach to say, "We need to do step one, step two, step three." Whether or not we do it is up to us. Whether or not our body changes as a result of a manual therapy is up to us.
0:07:09.1 Mischa Z: Yes, okay.
0:07:10.1 Rick Hayhurst: And sometimes, again, we have a holding pattern. It's an identity. Pain can become an identity. So a person comes in, 40 years of headaches, what do you gonna do about it? Nothing. What would you like to do about it? A lot of resistance. Like, "My doctor told me to come and that's why I came." Okay, great. Alright, great. Tell me about your headache. Wow. Now, you're getting to the story. I had a child and it's from the epidural, I'm sure of it. And that could be the case. It could be true. So I pull up some charts and I say, "Hey, let's just look at some pain patterns." And as you look at these charts, do you see yourself in any of these images of pain, the cause of pain and referral patterns, things like that?" And she says, "Yes. There's me, there's me, there's me, there's me."
0:08:00.0 Rick Hayhurst: Now, when a person responds like that, the truth is, it probably is them. It probably is what they're dealing with. And so, I say, "Okay, great. Well, this is what I suggest. How about we treat these things." And before we do that, my question to you though is, you've had headaches for 40 years, you've seen doctors, you've seen specialists, you've changed your diet, you've done all kinds of things to approach healing these headaches or this headache. What is missing? And she says, "I don't know. I don't know." And I say, "Well, you have to get that something's missing in the formula because 40 years of treatment and still having the same pathology... Just... We're just looking at like... Is there something missing?
0:08:46.1 Rick Hayhurst: She says, "Well, I really don't know. What do you think is missing?" And I said, "Proper treatment." I think proper treatment is missing. I think you're doing a great job with what you're doing, and you've landed in this chair. So let me just invite you to this experience. Maybe this experience can inform you or your body in a way that it hasn't been informed before. Great. She was a little like, "Okay." [chuckle] Like one of those.
0:09:12.9 Rick Hayhurst: And I was so grateful for her, she's a beautiful human. We're talking about a beautiful woman, we're not talking about anything else. We're talking about a beautiful, educated... Highly educated human.
0:09:25.5 Mischa Z: Yes.
0:09:26.0 Rick Hayhurst: And so, I invited her to lay on the table, and I think I touched her for about 20 minutes. A little manual therapy in her head and her neck and treated what I saw in the charts that she defined as her. And finished... Again, just 20 minutes of manual therapy. And I said, "Let's just check in. How are you doing?" "Well, I don't have a headache anymore." And I said, "When's the last time you didn't have a headache?" "I told you it was 40 years ago." And I said, "Okay. So in 40 years, you have had zero interruption in the headache expressing itself painfully." "Yes, 40 years."
0:10:07.2 Rick Hayhurst: And I said, "And today, right now, you don't have a headache." "I don't have a headache. What did you do?" And I said, "Let's just check in. Is it okay with you that you don't have a headache?" "Yes." "Okay. What I did was treat you according to what I explained in the beginning. And we looked at the charts and we just addressed what you pointed out, so we just followed your lead."
0:10:33.3 Rick Hayhurst: "Wow, I don't have a headache." And I said, "What you have to define for yourself is, are you okay with that because I can't support you if you're not. So if you're okay with that, we can go forward. If you're not, then I can't treat you." "Well, I'm okay." I said, "Great. I'll see you in three days, and I want you in my schedule every three days for this much time. Let's just check in. We'll do six sessions." If we wanna cancel any of that we can. Let's just put it in a calendar. "Okay." So leaves, comes back in three days. "How are you doing?" "I don't have a headache." And I said, "Isn't that amazing?" "What did you do?" And I said, "Do you want the headache?" "No." And I said, "Then look at your face and tell your face that you don't want the headache." [chuckle]
0:11:24.9 Rick Hayhurst: And she is confronted by that.
0:11:29.0 Mischa Z: Yes. Yes.
0:11:29.1 Rick Hayhurst: And I said, "Listen, you have an entire life set up to support being in pain, and I understand that." It's okay that you have that, but in order to change it, sometimes, we have to look at what are the systems that keep me in a holding pattern, and then how can I transform that holding pattern so that I can then transform the expression of the pain, which in this case is just a headache.
0:11:54.1 Rick Hayhurst: And I said, "So I'm only inviting you. I'm just inviting you." It means nothing to me. And I hope you get out of pain, but it doesn't affect my life, but I'm just inviting you. Are you willing to be in this work? "Yes." [chuckle] "Great. Great." And the gift of this story is just that healing is possible. Healing is possible, and it starts really with the mindset. The expression of pain is not the beginning of the pain. You gotta get the iceberg... The tip of the iceberg is the expression of pain, but what's underneath of it. And so, as we address that mindset, are you okay with it? Do you want it? And what are the systems that you have in place to support what you used to have versus creating new systems to support what you want to have? Go ahead.
0:12:47.0 Mischa Z: Yeah, yeah. No, I wanna get to the question because I think this is naturally leading into the question, but I wanna make sure I ask it of you. So I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm also gonna put you on pause really quick 'cause as expected, my son has come to life, and he's... I don't know if you can hear him in the background, but he is just...
0:13:06.0 Rick Hayhurst: No.
0:13:06.2 Mischa Z: You can't? Okay, good.
0:13:07.1 Rick Hayhurst: No, no. [chuckle]
0:13:07.8 Mischa Z: Hold on.
0:13:10.2 Mischa Z: So that leads me to the question. Naturally... I don't even think I need to ask this 'cause you were diving right in, but I do wanna frame it, and I think that that person right there that you're telling me the story is a great frame, but... I'm gonna give you a scenario and then I'm gonna ask you a question. Okay? Think of life as a three-legged stool of relationships, finances and health. Now, think of someone who is or was successful and has two of those legs fall out from under them. And this could be a combination of divorce, career upheaval, financial stress, kids acting out or not going in the direction they want. There could be physical health challenges like headaches for themselves or for loved ones. Maybe there's a death in the family and continued failed relationships.
0:14:07.8 Mischa Z: And to top it off there, pull yourself up from your bootstraps, your fix it and your push your way through it methods that have served us for so... Well for so long are no longer working. They need new tools. So for me, I went through a divorce, financial upheaval. I was very successful at work, and then all of a sudden I wasn't and trying to... It was definitely existential crisis, midlife crisis, death in the family. Like working my way through it was no longer working. I needed new tools, and by the grace of God, I was willing to look and be open-minded.
0:14:50.6 Mischa Z: So my question to you, thinking of your modality, transformational massage and body work, what are the exact next steps you would offer this person so they know they are headed in the new right direction, that they will have positive momentum towards getting their life back on track.
0:15:17.2 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah. What a great question. It's such a beautiful question. You know, fundamentally, I'm a coach, I'm an educator. And when I hear that question, and I think about people who have physiological struggles and emotional struggles. And even just life struggles. I think that the biggest exact step to take is to pause. Is just to pause and just to notice. Sometimes we lose the leg of the chair and we don't even know we lost it. We could lose two legs of the chair and not know we lost it. Life is happening and life is happening fast, and life is happening chaotically sometimes.
0:16:00.5 Rick Hayhurst: And so if I don't even notice where I am, like what my support system is. Did I lose a leg on that stool? There's really nothing else to say. I need to notice. I need to stop and pause and just notice. The gift of noticing is that it's noticing. It's not judging, it's not assessing, it's not evaluating, it's just noticing. And sometimes we notice more with a glance, than we notice as we focus in. Notice your vision as your focus sees one thing, the thing that you're looking at, but when you glance you see everything. And so noticing is akin to just a glance.
0:16:43.7 Rick Hayhurst: Let's just get the whole picture. Let's not even articulate or define or call it... Like, the color blue. Let's just be with the experience of, well what is it to notice? What is it just to notice. So the exact next step in the chaos as you described it is... In my world is step one is just notice. Once you notice, you can begin then to take inventory of what you're noticing. You could then start defining and describing and articulating all of the elements that you're noticing. You wanna get... There's elements that you can notice and you can define and you can articulate, but there's elements that you can't even know. It's just beyond your view. Or sometimes it doesn't have a language yet. Sometimes we can't articulate what we're noticing.
0:17:38.5 Mischa Z: This may sound like a silly question, but I'm curious. Someone's like... What would you tell someone when you're like... If you say, "I want you to notice. I want you to do that." Just glance. Glance around and notice. What are... What's like an actionable step to notice? And that might sound funny, but literally someone who's not used to it is... You gotta be like, "Well, here's how you notice things," for example.
0:18:06.0 Rick Hayhurst: No. I have a whole practice of people who say, "What do you mean notice." And I say, "Just look." Just look. What is the circumstance? Just look. The gift of that is knowing that... Were we raised in a culture where someone said, "Look." Were we raised in a family where someone said, "Hey, just look." Were we raised in a situation where we... Did we foster that? Has our life fostered that? Where like just noticing is part of the process.
0:18:41.6 Rick Hayhurst: The majority of people that I work with haven't been given permission to notice. They've been in the practice of not noticing because the job requires them to not notice. I can't work on this headache, I gotta be at this office. I have to teach this course. I can't notice this headache, I gotta go home and raise this child. I can't notice his headache, I got a husband to deal with. I can't notice this headache, I got parents that are aging.
0:19:13.0 Rick Hayhurst: I can't notice this headache, I got something else. So being willing just to notice, gives you access to, "What are all of the things? What are all the things?" Sometimes, noticing the things are just like, "Wow, this is amazing. There's a rose there. It's in full bloom." "Well, what else do you notice about the rose?" "Oh, there's a couple of thorns." And if you don't notice, you might grab it, and it will let you know.
0:19:38.8 Mischa Z: I like that. I liked about what you were saying too, in regards to those scenarios, it's like, notice peRick Hayhurstaps your physical state, notice peRick Hayhurstaps your work state, notice peRick Hayhurstaps the relationship state or your relationships state, I guess is, if I'm hearing what you're saying.
0:20:00.3 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah. I view the world holistically, as holistically as I can, and I support whole people. I don't support one aspect of human. When you deal with healing, you're dealing with healing the whole of human. Now, I'm not healing anyone, I'm inviting people into a circumstance where they can experience something for themselves, and by virtue of that, transformation can occur. So it's really a matter of setting up circumstance and inviting people into the circumstance. Making sense?
0:20:34.3 Mischa Z: I love that. Yeah, it does, totally. So cool. Pause, notice, step one, which... And I'm guessing, I think I heard you imply, step two is inventory, or were we ready to move on to the next step? I don't mean to push on but...
0:20:48.6 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, absolutely. So once you pause and notice, and again, just with a glance, we can notice more, than with a focus. Once we notice and we kinda take it all in, then we can start to articulate or maybe even lean in, lean in to what draws you. For example, I have headaches, but if I notice the experience I'm having from a more holistic point of view, I may not even be drawn to the headache. If I've been telling the story about the headache like it's from an epidural, I actually may be drawn to the divorce that happens soon after the child was born. I may be drawn to cancer that my great-aunt had, that I didn't even know was there to notice.
0:21:34.3 Rick Hayhurst: Maybe just lean in and let yourself be drawn to that thing that needs attention, instead of... Mentally, we got it all figured out, don't we? We got it all figured out, and the world is so safe 'cause I got it all figured it out. I don't have to worry about too many adventures, because I got it all figured out. I can control everything 'cause I got it all figured out. Let's just pretend for a moment, that we don't have to have it all figured out and that we can just lean into something. It may take me somewhere that I just never thought about. I may be leaning into like, "Oh wow, I had twins, one died, one was born. I've only focused on the one that was born. I never even gave a chance for me to grieve the fact that I lost a child." Now, that's possible, leaning in gives us access to what is that thing that's speaking to us, that may need our attention that we just never even thought of. Again, without judging, without evaluating, because we lean in and we lean into the field, the pasture. Okay, why is that getting my attention? I don't know. But just lean into it for a moment, be with that pasture.
0:22:38.7 Mischa Z: And so lean in, is one way I'm hearing this is, peRick Hayhurstaps let your thoughts go a direction where you were hesitant to let them go before?
0:22:51.3 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, if you're willing to lean in, it may not be a thought, it may not be a feeling. It may be beyond thought and feeling. There is a space before thought and feeling. And so, leaning in can just give you access to something you haven't thought or felt, so that becomes a moment of discovery. And without it being too esoteric and too like, "Okay, that's cuckoo." Without creating that for people, just giving us permission to lean into, "What is the experience of my life that needs attention?" And it could simply be the headache. Like, "I'm leaning in. Okay, the headaches. Got it. Okay, great. Let's do that," or, "You know when I had that argument with my mom 10 years ago? It's still alive for me. Okay, let's work on... Let's treat that. What is the thing?" The thing might be exactly what we think it is, and it might not be what we think it is. Pain is not necessarily physical, and also not necessarily emotional. What is it? Well, I don't know what it is for you, but if you lean in, you might get clear like, "Okay, there's this thing, there's this thing. I used the wrong hair dye, so there's that thing," like, "Oh man, that's taking my attention."
0:24:13.5 Mischa Z: How do you... When you're telling someone to lean in, are you giving them any guidance in that regard? It might sound crazy or a weird question, but are you just... Is it more of lean in and let... Me just telling you lean in, let the experience take you where it's gonna be, or are you like, "Hey, lean in and I want you to stop and take five minutes, or I want you to pull out a pen and paper or... "
0:24:45.6 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah. What a great question. It's not overly prescriptive. So that when you give people permission to be free, which is really the new... That's the new mindset, is to be free, it's not overly prescriptive. It's rather an exercising guiding people to an experience that they may never have had before. When you consider an experience that we never had before, we might use the word possibility. If you lean into what's possible, what's possible is an experience you may never had before. And so, if we're overly prescriptive, then we narrow the view. So I could be overly prescriptive, but is that gonna support what you need?
0:25:34.9 Rick Hayhurst: And if I'm willing to listen to the story of your body and give you access to, "What is the story that it's telling?" I really wanna be out of the way of that. I want you to be free in that. But that's challenging for people. A lot of us live in this situation where we prefer for someone else to tell us. I'm not responsible, man. If you tell me, I'm not responsible. So I could tell you and then you wouldn't be responsible. Okay, great. Now we don't have healing. We have something else. [chuckle]
0:26:11.0 Mischa Z: Yeah. Cool. I like it. Thank you for that. Alright. Lean in. What do we do after we lean in a little bit?
0:26:20.1 Rick Hayhurst: It's really up to you, but I feel like, again, using the headache as the foundation of the example, foundation of the story, as we got to lean into that story, there were several things that came forward, and some were career, some were home, some were relationship. And so, we did get a chance to do some coaching around home, career and relationship, and we got to really explore that from a coaching point of view and how those things are contributing factors, we would call them, to the system of headaches. So there's some contributing factors. And as a coach, I don't get into the emotional process so much, although there's emotion there a lot of times, but rather, coaching is about finding the limitation, and it can be really about looking for the breakthrough. If you got this career thing going on, what is it that you want to create? We got what you got. But what do you want to create? And then really stepping into, "Okay, great, if that's what you wanna create for yourself, then what's standing in the way?" And now, that's again, up to that person, it's not up to me, it's up to that person. What are the things that when they lean in, what are the things that are showing up?
0:27:42.0 Rick Hayhurst: And obviously, there's that practical aspect of, "Okay, what do you wanna deal with? What's most important to you?" What's most important for me, in any of the scenarios of my work, is pain, pain is priority, and that's how I coach, pain is priority. So if you've got pain, we gotta deal with that first, we can deal with every other thing, but we gotta deal with the headaches, because you don't really care about that relationship when you got a headache, that's disrupting your life. You don't care about career coaching when you got a headache that's disrupting your life, you know, like... And it becomes a ridiculous conversation to step over it, so for me, I coach that pain is a priority, let's not pretend, let's deal with that, and whether I can deal with that or send you to some place that can deal with that, that's okay. There's no attachment there. What is the therapy that you need, what is the treatment that you need, and let's deal with the pain. We can deal with all those other things, like there's a whole system to support those things, but that's what I would say in terms of, what do we deal with, well, first I would say pain, but the rest of that is just up to you, that's up to you too, by the way, if you prefer to be in pain. Remember my question to her was, is it okay with you? Because it wasn't okay with her at first.
0:29:04.3 Mischa Z: Yeah, I'm struck that we're not talking about a lot of massage and body work and... Can you answer that? Or talk to that?
0:29:32.1 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a manual therapist and I'm a coach. And transformational work is really about the mindset that is in play, creating limitations in the expression of life, and so when you're looking at limitation, yes, there's headaches there in this example, but what are the contributing factors? If we don't deal with contributing factors, we're not treating a headache, we're treating a symptom, we're not treating a headache. If you look at the whole person, you get to be aware of there are these manual therapy techniques to treat headaches, and it's not very difficult, but hydration is super important with headaches. It might be minimal in cause of headaches, but that could be a contributing factor. So there's that. There's like, oh yeah, there's this contributing factors, but your question is around, we're not really talking about manual therapy so much, we're talking about these other things, when you're thinking about transformational work, mindset is key. So in my last school, the fundamental program was mindset training. We predicated an entire program in mindset training, and we taught technique on top of that.
0:30:50.9 Mischa Z: So the manual massage technique on top of the mindset.
0:30:54.5 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, yes, exactly. That's right.
0:31:00.7 Mischa Z: And so I think two things, one, just the fact... And you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that even just having that physical work done, if your mindset isn't quite right yet, but it can provide relief and release of energy and open up, thinking that maybe just the idea that someone goes in and says, "Alright, I'm willing to be worked on. I'm willing to have this massage modality to start releasing energy and peRick Hayhurstaps giving these space to start to notice, using your words are giving me space to start articulating or leaning in," right? So, am I intuitively looking at that correctly or no?
0:32:03.5 Rick Hayhurst: Caroline Myss gives us a great gift in her work Anatomy of the Spirit where she teaches that we can access healing through any aspect of self. I can access healing for my physical being as I manage my spiritual being. I can access healing from my physical being as I manage my emotional being or my mental being. So, exactly as you're saying, "Can I access healing as you work on my physical being?" Absolutely. There doesn't need to be a word spoken. And so... Fundamentally, I'm an educator and a coach, so that's not my purview. I don't necessarily do that kind of work, I don't got to touch [chuckle] There's an earthquake. [chuckle]
0:32:54.6 Mischa Z: And coaster. [chuckle] Go on. Okay, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't just primarily address the physical or via touch, I guess would be the way to say...
0:33:07.2 Rick Hayhurst: No, in fact... And it doesn't really matter, it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of what is... For the person who's the practitioner, what is their purview? It's called best use of the self. What is best use? It's called, sorry. So what is the best use of me as a contributor in life, what's the best use? My best use is as an educator and a coach. I have training and experience in pain management as a manual therapist, so I get to contribute in that way, but when I walk in a room, I walk in the room as a whole being with a whole lot of training and experience in the breadth of healing work. So my lens isn't just, "Can I touch you?" It's not the lens.
0:33:56.7 Mischa Z: No for sure. Yeah.
0:33:58.0 Rick Hayhurst: The lens is different, and for people who have only that lens, that is perfect. That's perfect. You can absolutely change of being with... Well, honestly, with just your presence. You don't have to touch.
0:34:15.4 Mischa Z: Yeah. I was just... I think of two things, I think of somebody who, excuse my language, the shit's hit the fan in their life for all intents and purposes. And they're like, alright, like I said, peRick Hayhurstaps my neurosis or my lack of control as it was starting, [chuckle] the world was shining its light on my lack of control, the illusion of control was being stripped away faster than I appreciated. And for me, like I went and did some different style of work of modalities, tapped into different modalities that helped give me hope that it was gonna be okay. It's like there's that period where for me, I was not suicidal, but I was like, I see why people take their lives, 'cause I had hit that dark place in life where my thinking... It was just dark, I was like, "Holy crap, I see why people peRick Hayhurstaps end their lives," I don't mean to go there, to necessarily go dark here, but I was like, "Yeah, okay." I had more empathy, and so I was like, "Alright, I need more than just... " I was like, "Oh yeah, meditation or journaling," or I started doing some more energy-style work or for whatever reason, then it's like, "Oh yeah, that massage is such a good... "
0:36:09.1 Mischa Z: To start letting out that energy of historically, we've been bottling it up, so I think that like what you offer, what massage offers, and you can validate this or not, is to give somebody that grain of hope that like, "Hey, we don't need to fix it all, you can come in, we can start talking. You can get some manual work done and we might not fix the problem in the moment, but you will feel like you are heading in that new right direction." Have you seen that? 'Cause I think... I'm just trying to bring it down to this more real, like... We've got somebody that's hurting emotionally, mentally, peRick Hayhurstaps it's coming out and then physically. It's like, "Oh hey. It's all gonna be okay. Come on in. Let's get you a massage. Let's start having a conversation," right?
0:37:14.9 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful reminder that we just don't need words, that sometimes I just need to be touched, and that's what I mean. And the validation that comes through touch is extraordinary, and that validation alone says, "Oh my goodness, I'm okay." Like I can be okay, and that touch reminds me, all of a sudden I might be living upstairs and all that swirl, and that touch just brings me back down into my body, reminds me like, "Oh wow, I have a torso." I have legs, I have feet, I have hands, like, "Wow, I have this." And so that swirl that was happening five seconds ago can just magically disappear as a result of not only the validation, but the physiological response to the touch, which is endorphins, and various levels of endorphins and endorphins are the body's central painkillers, they're our pleasure, feelings. So just by virtue of this positive touch, endorphins are released into the body, creating a sense of wellness, changing some of that other negative, whatever the chemicals are that's causing some events, that stress response. So it's absolutely true, valid, important and necessary to have positive touch in our lives. So, I'm not a non-touch therapist although I can be, and I think that it's absolutely prudent for every human to be touched in a positive way. So positive, healthy touch can change communities.
0:39:00.9 Rick Hayhurst: Imagine instead of going... I used to say this actually a lot when we were dealing with the war in Iraq, even the first Gulf War, like, what if we just went over and sent a hug committee? Instead of what we're doing, what if we just laid a hand on top of a hand, and just sat in the quiet like that for a moment, what would happen then? What if we put world leaders together and we just... Instead of sitting uncomfortably, shoulder to shoulder, what if we actually just figured a way that, what would be safe for you to lay my hand on your shoulder? Can I just lay my hand on your shoulder? And just run experiments like that. What would happen? Touch is prudent in the world, we have the science for that, and even before the science, we have been knowing for that, and we have expressions of that. Thank you mom for holding me.
0:40:02.2 Mischa Z: Yeah. Cool, so just back to the steps, I'm trying to give people actionable... Actionable content so they can... We don't need to solve the problem now, we just need to get people headed in the new right direction. And so someone walks in, you're like, "Hey, you know what? Let's pause. Let's notice, this is what I'm gonna encourage you to do. In the meantime, let's do some work." Whatever modality, touch modality or bodywork modality... I'm looking over at my notes and then lean in to what's coming up. 'Cause stuff's gonna come up. If I'm willing and I'm leaning in and I'm physically... If I'm manually being manipulated, I don't know if that's the right term to use, but stuff's gonna start coming up that we need to start paying attention to. So then we go, what was our third step? Then it was like, alright, sort of address, pluck out what we wanna work on. Is that what I heard you say?
0:41:22.0 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah so if pain... If you've got pain, pain is first. Pain is first. There's so many ways to address manual therapy, you can think of the spa massage as, is this the common understanding of massage therapy? Like Swedish massage? That's wonderful. Deep tissue massage that's wonderful. We don't have to talk about that, we don't have to talk about anything. Just like enjoy. [chuckle] And I'm a spa lifer. I'm a spa lifer. I'm a weekly on a table somewhere, and have been and blessed in this life from being educated this way, but I don't go to talk, I go to receive. And then that's my process. Talking isn't necessary part of the process, but in terms of what do you do next in the practical steps when you're thinking about a manual therapy or a healing paradigm, you get to prioritize what that is, if there's no pain, what is it that you wanna work on? And maybe this is just stress management, maybe it's just that relaxation, that's okay. There's a lot of things to look at, so it's...
0:42:33.3 Mischa Z: I love that.
0:42:34.1 Rick Hayhurst: Not as simple as step one, step two, step three. When people say, "Well, what do you do? If you're gonna work with me in manual therapy, what do u do?" I listen and follow, that's all I do; I listen and follow. What do you do in a coaching session? I listen and follow. What do you do with clients when you're setting up a marketing plan? I listen and follow. What are you doing when you're creating communities for transformation? I listen and follow. What is the training? The training is to listen and follow.
0:43:05.5 Mischa Z: I love that. What... Have we missed anything as far as our imaginary person or our headache person or... Are you like, let's just... I guess I'm looking for the end point or not, I'm going, alright, how are we gonna put a bow on this?
0:43:30.9 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. So we worked together probably for two years, in that time, one time she said that she had a headache come back, but it wasn't the same headache she had for 40 years, so just a different experience in her body, wherever that restriction was. And then years later, she invited me to get together for lunch, and so we got together for lunch, and she said to me, "I still don't have headaches, and I gotta tell you, you changed my life, and I tell everyone about you," and I said, "No, you changed your life." Healing happens on the inside, and so that, there was something that inspired you to make some changes, even if that was the touch or the conversation or whatever, the changes occur as a result of our willingness to make those changes, the restriction releases as a result of us being willing to release the restriction. Yes, somebody might touch you, someone might say something valuable, like I'm an amazing coach, I'm a great coach, but healing happens on the inside, you are responsible for that, and I wanna hold the space for you to be safe in that and then to guide you in the ways that I can, according to my education experience, and then if it is beyond me, I need to refer you out.
0:44:48.1 Mischa Z: Yes, I love that. Yeah. Fantastic. Very good. I'm looking on my notes. So I think that that is a good place to stop. And so, if this interview with Rick was fantastic and you want to get even more content from Rick, upgrade to the all access pass for that bonus interview, which is what we are going to do next. Any final thoughts to share that we did not get a chance to cover, Rick?
0:45:26.9 Rick Hayhurst: Drink more water, and go take a walk.
0:45:31.0 Mischa Z: I love it. Sometimes it's as simple as that, right?
0:45:34.7 Rick Hayhurst: Yeah, it is.
0:45:36.8 Mischa Z: Oh my God, thank you for that. That's amazing. And you can find Rick at blitzbe.com, www.B-L-I-T-Z-B-E.com, as well as transformationalcoach.us. And it's spelled as it sounds, transformationalcoach.us. Again, click the button on this page. It could be there, it could be over there to get unlimited access to all of these interviews in the All access pass. Thank you, Rick.
0:46:13.2 Rick Hayhurst: Thank you, brother.