Robert Drysdale, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IBJJF and ADCC World Champion, MMA Fighter, TEDx Speaker, and owner of Zenith Jiu-Jitsu talks the power of community, competition, and humility.
Robert Drysdale, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IBJJF and ADCC World Champion, MMA Fighter, TEDx Speaker, and owner of Zenith Jiu-Jitsu talks the power of community, competition, and humility.
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Transcript: 0:00:05.9 Mischa Z: Welcome back, everybody, to the Tools For A Good Life Summit. And right now I would like to introduce to you Robert Drysdale, world champion, a BJJ Brazilian jiu-jitsu master. Is "master" an appropriate word or...
0:00:25.6 Robert Drysdale: I go by coach or just Rob. I'm very simple.
0:00:29.9 Mischa Z: Okay, fantastic.
0:00:31.3 Robert Drysdale: No need for a lot of titles, it's all good.
0:00:33.4 Mischa Z: I love it. Fantastic. That's one thing that drew me to you for this summit. Real quick, I'm gonna read your bio. Okay?
0:00:41.7 Robert Drysdale: Sure.
0:00:42.4 Mischa Z: Fantastic. Born in the USA, from a Brazilian mother and American father, and having spent his life between these two countries, Robert Drysdale remains the only American born to have ever won both the IBJJF and ADCC world championships, the two most prestigious tournaments in all of jiu-jitsu. Furthermore, he has also cultivated a career in MMA, both as a fighter and as a coach. The author also holds a bachelor's degree in History, as well as a long-held passion for this discipline. He lives in Las Vegas, Nevada, where he teaches Brazilian jiu-jitsu and MMA. And you are the co-founder of the international team, Zenith Jiu-Jitsu, and you are the father of two girls. So I've got two friends... I'm 53, I have two friends late 40s, and as I was putting together this summit, and really, I think there's so many great modalities out there to help us as we get a little bit older in age, perhaps an existential crisis, whatever it is. But there's all these great modalities, and I think Brazil...
0:02:04.5 Mischa Z: Train going by, if you heard that. Brazilian jiu-jitsu and the martial arts, judo, are so powerful. So I've got these two buddies, both who are pushing 50, both who have started Brazilian jiu-jitsu or BJJ, for anyone who's listening and is unfamiliar with that term BJJ, and it's transformed their lives. One's been doing it for about a year and a half, and one's been doing it for about three years, so I was like, "I definitely need to get somebody on the summit who can speak to it, and why not somebody who's been in it his whole life?" And that's how I came to you. I have a couple of questions to start with. First off, can you speak to that just a little bit?
0:03:06.5 Robert Drysdale: I think there's a variety of reasons why Brazilian jiu-jitsu is appealing to a whole plethora of people at different walks of life, everything from children, to mothers, to competitive athletes, to dads, to people who've never practiced any sports or they never really felt a calling to martial arts in general, maybe people that think that fighting was despicable, all of a sudden they're madly in love with Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I think there's a variety of things that come into play here, and it helps explain why Brazilian jiu-jitsu is such a worldwide phenom. I think, firstly, it has to do with we like challenges, we like things that are difficult enough for us to be able to overcome them, and I think Brazilian jiu-jitsu is like you're overcoming yourself one day at a time. Think of a video game that you play that you can beat the first time you play it, it's not very challenging, you're probably not gonna play it again. But if it's something that is constantly challenging you, if it's something that's constantly, there's new layer after layer after layer, and you can't defeat it, now you become more challenged by it, and that's what competition is. We are obsessed with competition, we enjoy competition. And competition is good, and there's a healthy way to be competitive, and I think jiu-jitsu is one of the many arenas where you can exercise that healthy competition.
0:04:25.3 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:04:26.1 Robert Drysdale: I also think that people have become highly addicted to the endorphins from training, physical endorphins, and they get, some people call it a "runner's high" or whatever high you experience while you're working out, you experience that in jiu-jitsu as well. Granted, and I am biased here, I'm the first one who admit it, jiu-jitsu is chess with your body, it's highly, highly intellectual. It drives me crazy. It's a bit of a peeve of mine when people think of fighters as these brutes that don't know how to think, and that's why they fight. I cannot think of anything more intellectual than fighting, I really can't. It is one of the most extreme displays of human intelligence.
0:05:04.7 Mischa Z: Yes, yes.
0:05:05.9 Robert Drysdale: It's just that it's not seen that way for a variety of reasons. It's not sold that way, because if you pitch fighting that way, it might be less interesting to show business, but I've known these guys and some of these guys have never read a book in their lives, but they are some of the most intelligent people you've ever met in your life.
0:05:21.3 Mischa Z: Yeah, can I say something to that real quick?
0:05:23.9 Robert Drysdale: Sure.
0:05:24.6 Mischa Z: Sure. So my one buddy, Kevin, he said that, he started a couple of years ago, but he said, initially, it's the physicality of it, but then you realize really quickly, it's the mental game, it's the mental process, it's the strategy, that chess, and the more... If you play chess, for example, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know and you need to know, kind of a thing. Is that a good analogy or...
0:05:52.7 Robert Drysdale: It is infinite, it's infinite. We often compare it to chess. And I remember I had a friend of mine in college, back in Brazil, where he was a chess master, highly ranked, and we would argue, we'd always debate which one was more complex, chess or jiu-jitsu, and I'd win every time, 'cause you can't... Because chess is two-dimensional, and it's only got a few pieces, and the pieces only do so many moves. Human movement is three-dimensional, it has infinite movements, infinite movements. You add the emotional stress of fighting, that does... It's very few things in life can replicate that. I imagine war would be something even more stressful. I imagine a real life-threatening situation will be very stressful like that. But fighting is extremely stressful, and you gotta manage it, and it's not... It's the reason why most people are terrified of it, 'cause just the thought of it freaks them out.
[chuckle]
0:06:44.5 Robert Drysdale: Knowing that it's 7:00 PM on a Saturday, you're gonna have to step into a cage and fight against someone who's been trained their whole life to knock your head off. It's a terrifying thought, and it really is. And I have no issues admitting this, I was terrified every single time I stepped in there. You can't show it.
0:07:01.3 Mischa Z: Really?
0:07:02.1 Robert Drysdale: Oh, absolutely, absolutely, on the verge of crying, I was so scared. On the verge of crying. Actually, I would hope to get injured like the week of the fight, so I didn't have to fight, 'cause there's a part of me that was hoping I would get injured, so I didn't have to fight. That's how scary... And that's intelligence, that is intelligence. People don't see it, but it's to manage that, it's not for everyone. So, I think that... And then you add the physical element to it, it's extremely physical. They say that wrestling is one of the hardest things you'll do in life, and it's true, like trying to take someone down and then trying to stand back up, and you're holding them down. I think CrossFit is easy, and I'm not trying to discredit anyone, but, physical terms, and you can't compare... And then there's a technical layers to it. It's just layer after layer after layer.
0:07:50.7 Mischa Z: Layer after layer.
0:07:51.9 Robert Drysdale: 23 years of doing this, and I'm not even scraping the surface.
0:07:55.4 Mischa Z: That's incredible.
0:07:55.6 Robert Drysdale: And it really is infinite. I really feel like fighting, in general, is not appreciated as something that requires an enormous amount of intelligence and intellect in general. It's just that our definition of intelligence is so narrow, it's so limiting that we don't see it that way, we see two meatheads trying to knock each other out. But there's beauty in that, too, there's value. You're trying to defeat your opponent. It's like looking in through a mirror, you're trying to look through that mirror, trying to move faster than the mirror moves, and I think it's beautiful in many, many different levels. But it's something I think a lot of people miss, they only see a bar fight. I don't see a bar fight, I see a ceremony.
0:08:37.2 Mischa Z: Yeah. I wanna speak to two things in that regard, and one is, my buddy, Kevin, I'm gonna drop their names 'cause they're gonna be so excited that they're collaterally involved in this. [laughter] But, Kevin said it's the most rigorous exercise for him, and that it beats the hell out of him, and he loves it. At 50 years old, he's like, "Yeah, it just kicks my ass, and it feels so good," and so there's that physical outlet, which is so powerful, especially as we get older, I think, to keep that movement, and just for longevity. It's so powerful. But my other buddy, Fernando, it transformed his relationships with people, and specifically with his girlfriend that he's been with for a while, and it was... He was talking about how in the judo, the Brazilian jiu-jitsu, how it's very meditative on one hand 'cause your mind has to focus, which is awesome, and then also the patience that it teaches you and the new perspective that it teaches him, and how he was able to bring that out and find patience with a new perspective with his relationships. Can you speak to that a little bit or is that your experience as well or...
0:10:03.4 Robert Drysdale: It does help on a personal level, too. There's so many lessons. I often say that every lesson you're gonna learn in life, you're gonna learn it on the mats first. It's just that you may or may not see them, but they're all there. But there's something about... I think especially when it comes to men and women relationships, 'cause we're living in an age where we're taught that everything is exactly the same, and I don't believe that. I think that women expect a certain behavior from a man and vice versa, and I think that's the way nature is. I'm not suggesting there are fixed gender roles, but I think women do like a strong masculine figure. You just talk to them, and they'll tell you, like, "Who are you attracted to?" And they're gonna define what they're attracted to, and it fits a certain profile. There are exceptions; there might be women out there who love men who cry all the time, for example, or who show weakness or can't fix a door or can't open the door for them or can't carry groceries. These things might exist, but I think for the most part, women like a man being a man. And one thing that jiu-jitsu will do for you, or fighting in general, well, I think I'm biased towards jiu-jitsu, and obviously that's my background, but I think any kind of combat will do, is it does give you a certain level of confidence about being... You learn... Because you're gonna lose, you're gonna lose, you're gonna win.
0:11:23.8 Robert Drysdale: I think that martial arts combat, the strife, the struggle, is something that, it puts you exactly where you need to be confidence-wise. I'll give you an example. Children that walk into my gym, they have the insecure child, right, the child that can't make eye contact, he's bullied, he's made fun of, he never wins at any sport, so he doesn't try. Parents bring them into jiu-jitsu as a last hope, last resort, "This my child is doomed." And what happens is that child, initially they lose and they lose, but every now then they win, and then they go, "Oh, wow, I didn't know I could do that, I just went around." And then they lose and lose again, and then they win another one. So what it does is as they win, as they lose, it brings their confidence level up to where it should be because they walked in they were very insecure. They're not over-confident because they still lose, but the wins, they teach them that they are more capable than they thought they were.
0:12:17.4 Robert Drysdale: And then you get the child who is the bully, you get the child who is the over-confident child, perhaps because he's bigger or he's more confident, and he just walks in and he acts like he's gonna own the room, and then he walks into jiu-jitsu and he gets tapped by the nerdy kid with glasses. He loses a round after round after round to the kid, and now he's shocked, he's shocked that he just lost, like, "I didn't think that was possible." So, two things happen to the bully, he either leaves or he changes. He adapts and he goes, "Wait a second, I'm not as good as I thought I was." So it brings him down from that state of over-confidence, exactly where he's supposed to be, and then the bullied and the bully end up more or less in the same place, exactly as it's supposed to be. And when you find that happy place, you'll see the flaws in yourself, you'll see the weaknesses, but you'll see the strength too, and then you walk away with that, with a certain degree of confidence that I think it is just... Confidence is one of those things, you can't talk it, you can't. You just have to feel it, you have to be it. And jiu-jitsu changes you, it changes you from the inside in a very meaningful way.
0:13:20.4 Robert Drysdale: So I think for people that start relating, not just romantically, but business-wise, they see something different. I was a very insecure teenager, very, very terrified of fighting, terrified of talking with a girl, I get very socially awkward, didn't have a whole bunch of friends, but jiu-jitsu changed me to the point where after I stepped into a cage, I'm going, "What's gonna intimidate me now?" I'll be in college, and there'll be an exam and everyone's terrified of it, everyone's worried, I'm like, "This is a piece of paper, people." [laughter] "There's no way that this is gonna scare me." And if you get used to that, having that battle, the win, the lose, and the struggling, that creates, in you, a certain medal that you don't get by talking about it, by reading a self-help book. You don't get it any other way, you have to experience it and that raises your... I think it improves on all your relationships, it makes you better at everything.
0:14:19.5 Mischa Z: Yeah, I like it. I was just thinking too, I'm imagining as, at any age, it can be a haven to work out emotions, to work out thoughts, to go to the map, or... Is that a realistic assessment as well? Yeah. Okay.
0:14:43.5 Robert Drysdale: Absolutely.
0:14:44.1 Mischa Z: What's that?
0:14:45.3 Robert Drysdale: No, absolutely, I said.
0:14:46.7 Mischa Z: Yeah. Great. I have a question, I'm gonna lay out a scenario for you, and then I'm gonna ask you a question, and I'm looking forward to your answer. Okay?
0:14:58.5 Robert Drysdale: Absolutely.
0:15:00.5 Mischa Z: Fantastic. Think of life as a three-legged stool of relationships, finances and health, now think of someone who is or was successful and has two of those legs fall out from under them, this could be a combination of divorce, career, upheaval, financial stress, kids acting out or not going the direction that they want, there could be physical health challenges for themselves or for a loved one, maybe a death in the family and continued failed relationships, and to top it off there, pull yourself up from your bootstraps, there're fix it, there're push your way through it methods that served them so well are no longer working, they need new tools. And so for me, and as I was hitting my 40s, there was divorce, career upheaval, and success, and I'm sure you've...
0:16:00.4 Mischa Z: Actually I watched your TED Talk, which was amazing, so you can relate. But there's that, there's success as a solution, there's money as a solution, and then, excuse my language, the shit hits the fan, for me it was divorce, career upheaval, failed relationships, both parents died in rapid succession, so it shook my foundations, and I was like, "I need some new tools, I need something more than just... I'm gonna go work more or make more money or... " You know what I mean? So this is my question to you, thinking of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, what are the exact next steps you would offer this person, so they know they are headed in the new right direction, that they will have positive momentum towards getting their life back on track?
0:16:56.9 Robert Drysdale: Yeah, you go through cycles in life, I'm not the same me I was 10 years ago, and it's a painful transformation because you change your mind, you change your world view, you change your relationships, your world collapses on you at some point and nothing's working anymore. I've been through that as well. The one thing, and I recommend this. When people ask me, "Is jiu-jitsu healthy?" And I go, "For the body or for the mind?" Very different. [chuckle] It's not healthy on the body I don't, I don't care what people say, yeah, you'll have a good heart rate, your heart will be fine, but there's more to health than just your heart and lungs. But, mentally, it's very healthy. Mentally, it's kept me in a very good place. I've seen it do it to people with PTSD, autism, social anxiety, panic syndrome, double personality disorder, schizophrenia, you name it, people that are suicidal, drug addicts and alcoholics, and it just puts them... Because there's something missing in modern life. If you listen to my TED Talk, I've loved Nietzsche since I was a teenager, and he says that technology, comfort and science were gonna make life easier, but it's also gonna make them unhappier 'cause they're gonna be so comfortable they have nothing to fight for. And once you have nothing to fight for, how can you find happiness? How can you find satisfaction when everything is given to you?
0:18:23.5 Robert Drysdale: If I give you a black belt, if I send you a black belt in the mail, how does that make you feel? It doesn't make you feel any better, it doesn't make you feel better about yourself, right? If you earn it, if you put 10 years of your life into something, struggle to achieve it, now it means something that is meaningful in a deeper way. And I think these are the things that martial arts do for you, they make you word hard for everything, and there's value in that, there's a satisfaction to that that you don't find in many other things in life. When you're in there, the lights are off, the sound is off, the world is off, there's no thinking, there's no stress, there's no time for anxiety, to think about your sex life, your romantic life, your financial life, there's someone trying to beat you, there's someone trying to choke you. [laughter] And you have to deal with all that, and it's... It's those two hours you're on the mats, it's peaceful, it's like ultimate form of therapy, these things are missing in human life, this is how we've lived our entire existence, 99% of our existence, we struggled every second of every day. And then you have technology, it comes in and makes life so easy, we're no longer struggling, poor people are obese. It's the first time in history it's ever happened, struggles are no longer the same struggles we had 500 years ago, 1000 years ago, 20,000 years ago.
0:19:49.9 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:19:51.6 Robert Drysdale: And I think we're missing that, and I think martial arts is a space where we get to exercise that aspect of human nature that's been set aside. We don't have to work haRobert Drysdale to hunt an animal anymore, we go to Walmart, we buy meat. If you wanna see a beautiful view, you pull up a picture, you don't have to climb a mountain anymore.
[chuckle]
0:20:11.1 Robert Drysdale: We don't have to climb a mountain. You can buy a photo and frame a beautiful picture in your living room, is that right? Right?
[chuckle]
0:20:17.6 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:20:18.5 Robert Drysdale: So because of all these things, I think that it's... The lack of struggling is making people less happy. And I think this is one explanation for depression and suicide going through the roof. I'm not saying I have all the answer, I'm not proposing that, but I think that martial arts is an expression of something that is very primal, very human and necessary, like this is how we have lived, this is who we are. And it's a place to exercise all that in a healthy way. So...
0:20:46.5 Mischa Z: Okay... Yeah, go on, sorry.
0:20:48.9 Robert Drysdale: No. I'm just gonna wrap it up. And to your point, I think that that's... That's why people feel so good in there, that's why your friend feels so good losing, getting... He just got his ass kicked and he loved it. Because he's been taught his whole life that losing is bad, and losing is part of the process. You're gonna lose. The only people who don't lose are the people who don't throw themselves out there. If you don't throw yourselves out there, you're never gonna have a sense of achievement, because you're never gonna achieve anything, right?
0:21:17.5 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:21:17.7 Robert Drysdale: Right. So, you just gotta take the good and the bad and you learn how to love both, you learn how to love your losses, too. I'm happy for my losses. Now looking back, every time I lost... At the time I was depressed, I'm like, "Oh, my life is over, I just lost, I've have dedicated a whole year to this com... " But now I look back and I'm so thankful for them. I'm like those made who I am, and I'm happy with who I am. So, it's a very healthy environment.
0:21:40.8 Mischa Z: I love it. Let me ask you as well. So, let's say you got a 40, 50-year-old guy or girl, maybe late 30s, somewhere in that range who might feel intimidated or feel like, "I don't know if I could stand and ass kicking day one," or... How would you encourage somebody to get through the door for day one?
0:22:07.5 Robert Drysdale: Yeah. I learnt that lesson the hard way as a business owner. It's easy to forget what it was like your first day, because your first day only lasts one day. And then by week three, you're very... It's your second home. But for someone who's just getting started, that first day is the hard one of the hardest days of their life for a lot of people. To just walk in through the door, it terrifies them.
0:22:26.8 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:22:27.9 Robert Drysdale: In my gym, we created what we call a 15-day lesson program. There's no actual contact, it's just theory. So, it can be boring for someone who knows how to fight, but for someone who doesn't, it's still a lot of interesting information, where we teach you the basics of the basics. Basically, teaching you how to crawl before you're gonna walk. And new beginners love it, because they're not allowed to train their first 15 days, all they gotta do is... It's just like music theory before I hand the guitar. So, you're not gonna hold on to a guitar before you're done with day 15.
0:22:55.6 Mischa Z: Yeah. Yeah.
0:22:55.6 Robert Drysdale: You're just gonna be learning the theory of it. But if you don't know anything about music, maybe it's a little boring, you just wanna pick up a guitar, which some people do by day five, they're ready to rock and roll, but we give them the option. And so basically, everyone's gonna evolve at their own pace. It's not a race. It's you are racing against yourself, if there's any race going on. So, you're evolving at your own pace. So we have moms in there who have never done any... That haven't practiced sports since they were children, and they're overweight, and they're un athletic, and they're very insecure, and they're in their 50s, perhaps. And they jump in my class, and I have professional fighters on the mat. So, you'll imagine how they feel about that and... But the way we do it... And I can't speak for every gym, this is how I run my gym.
0:23:38.3 Mischa Z: I love it.
0:23:39.5 Robert Drysdale: We give them time. This is your pace, you wanna rest, you're rest. You wanna go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom. You wanna sit out, sit out. You wanna watch, you watch. And because you're in an environment... We follow our peers, like what people around us are doing, that's what we wanna do. So, if you see everyone around you and you created a culture where everyone around is competing in a healthy way, and they're trying to win and defeat each other in a healthy way, then you're watching that... And I'm telling you, I don't care if you're a mom, I don't care if you're 60 or 70, I don't care if your knees hurt, you're gonna watch, then you're gonna go, "I wanna be part of that. It looks like those people are having a blast" and they are. And then once you immerse yourself in that culture, and it's okay to lose and no one's gonna make fun of you, because that person just lost the previous round, and it's just part of what we do, that competition, it becomes highly addictive. There's a reason why... I've never seen anyone quit jiu-jitsu, because they didn't like it. I've seen people quit for work reasons, family reasons, health reasons. I've never seen anyone say, "You know what, I rolled around and someone beat me and I hated it." Granted, your first week, you should not get your ass kicked, because it's not for everyone.
0:24:46.2 Mischa Z: Right.
0:24:47.0 Robert Drysdale: It might be too intimidating. I am advocate of easing people in and let them be comfortable enough with the mats before you start pushing them. And then they're gonna ask to be pushed, even moms do, they want to be pushed.
0:25:00.6 Mischa Z: I love that. So we've got day one through 15, learn about it, get comfortable with the environment, super soft entry, and you just see the... How good it is and how vital... I don't know if vital is a good woRobert Drysdale, but I'm sensing that. And so what happens next? Do you have a day 16 to 30 or...
0:25:23.0 Robert Drysdale: Well, and then we throw you in the beginners class. So now, you're in a class with the other... So, we have a class before you went to the beginner class, a preparation class, so to speak. Beginner class, you're gonna be there for anywhere between a year to two years, depending on your attendance level. And obviously, how quickly you progress, and people progress at different rates. Like a 22-year-old is gonna progress faster than an eight-year-old or a 65-year-old, for example. Athletic ability does count. So there is some differences. So anywhere between a year and two years, and then we move you to my advanced class. Sorry about that, it's the dog.
0:25:58.8 Mischa Z: That's okay. Dog saying hi. [chuckle]
0:26:01.8 Robert Drysdale: But then you move into the advanced class where the instruction is gonna be a little more sophisticated, and the class is a little bit long or becomes physically a little bit harder. It's just a more... It's just a little... You just raise the bar for them, and then they're in that class for the rest of their lives.
0:26:20.7 Mischa Z: So, beginner, one to two years and then are... So I get the sense, and tell me if this is true, and I'm sure you've seen it, but again, let's say we've got somebody 30, 40, 50 or a mom who's like, "Yeah, I wanna do this." Or a dad or what have you, and... Or you mentioned somebody who's got PTSD. The transformation or the mental freedom starts right away, right? It's not like... Is that an accurate sense that I have like, "Hey, the baby steps just are beautiful." Is that a... Is that...
0:27:03.2 Robert Drysdale: You'll get something out of it day one, but it's one of those things the more you do it... Like compare it to music. Your first day with a guitar may not be the most rewarding day, because you can't really play anything.
0:27:13.4 Robert Drysdale: Yeah.
0:27:13.9 Mischa Z: Alright, but the more... The first time you can hear that sound, or the first chord that you can hear nice and clear, you're gonna go, "Oh, wow, I can do this." Okay. Now, I know what people are doing, I just gotta get better at it." And this practice will... Next thing you know, you can play a whole song.
0:27:28.8 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:27:29.4 Robert Drysdale: And it's very similar, but it doesn't end. At the same time, there's no I know or I don't know. It's not binary. It's a spectrum, and it's infinite. 23 years in, my body is destroyed, and I only wish my health were better, so I can keep training and keep improving.
0:27:44.1 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:27:45.0 Robert Drysdale: But there's... And it's not an age thing, it's more of a miles thing. It's like a car. It could be 2020 and have 150,000 miles on it.
0:27:53.8 Mischa Z: Yes.
0:27:54.6 Robert Drysdale: So it's kinda how I'm... At 39, it's kind of how I feel. I got arthritis all over my body, but I mean, it was worth it. I wouldn't go back and change anything.
0:28:02.3 Mischa Z: Of course.
0:28:03.3 Robert Drysdale: But it's baby steps. You get more out of it the more you do it. It is really is a marathon and it's... Your life will end before the marathon ends.
0:28:14.5 Mischa Z: Fantastic. Tell me, off the top of your head, of somebody who's, again, our age, and I'll... I'm a little older than you, so I apologize for saying our age, but sort of a transformation that you've seen from somebody perhaps on the door of suicide, not guaranteeing that someone's gonna have this transformation, but have you seen, literally, people on... Mentally at the bottom and then come through that? Can you walk me through that?
0:28:48.1 Robert Drysdale: Yes. We had one veteran, she was an Iraq veteran and... I don't even know what she went through. I was too scared to ask, but she was very traumatized. Her social anxiety was through the roof, she had a dog with her 24/7. I think to make matters worse, she had no family or very little family. She was very distant from her family. She basically had like... She'd be at home all day living off whatever she was getting from her... As a veteran. She was wounded, too, so she had problems moving. She would use a wheelchair, and she didn't get off the wheelchair. But it was a bad scenario, man, it was just awful. And it kind of broke my heart, because you could see she was a very lonely person, and she was really struggling mentally, but she would come to the gym every day.
0:29:39.3 Robert Drysdale: She would come to the gym every single day, and I... And she couldn't do much. She was so injured that there was not much she could do, but she was there every day, and you can see her improving, just being on the mats with us, everyone was really nice and patient and understanding. It sort of gave her like a... It gave her a second family, a place... Or a first family perhaps, a place to belong, a place to be, a place to be happy and people would joke around with her. And that's the other thing, marshal arts environment is an environment where people are treated equally, truly, not pretentiously, like truly. If we like you, we make fun of you just like everyone else. It's a brotherhood or a sisterhood, if you will. There's no such thing as, "I have to keep the appearances," and you gotta talk to people." You remove the social mask, like, "Hey, man, I've seen you almost cry from losing. It's okay." It's a very naked kind of relationship.
0:30:35.8 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:30:36.2 Robert Drysdale: So it's very honest. It's very honest, and I think people appreciate that. We treated her like she was one of us. She got treated exactly like everyone else. It wasn't like, "Oh, my God, she's a veteran, and she's injured. Let's give her special treatment." It was none of that. There was no special treatment. It was like, "Now you're one of us." Okay, you're on a mat like everyone else. No one went easy on her in the sense where... We respected her disability, but no one is treating her like someone who's handicapped. She got treated like a normal human being, and that's how I think... If someone has a handicap, that's how you treat them, like it's... I've heaRobert Drysdale that the worst thing you can ask a cancer patient is, "How are you doing? How you feeling?" Like a dying cancer patient.
0:31:16.6 Robert Drysdale: It's the worst thing you can do, is ask them how they're feeling. Like, why would you do that? Do you think that's gonna make them feel better if it is asked repeated for the 10th time and they feel like shit? They have cancer, they're gonna die, and they know that, how do you think you're helping? If you wanna make... Do something for that person, make them laugh, tease them about the old times or remember something that will happen in... 10 years. "Oh, remember that one time you did... That was retarded." Make fun of them and then make them laugh, and they can make fun of you, and you just treat them equal, treat them like you would treat your best friend. I think that's what people are looking for, and martial... At least, in my environment, I try to cultivate that. I try to be blunt with people and just treat them the way I would wanna be treated. And that involves just more than just being nice to them. It's being truly like a friend, you treat them like a friend. And that means, you normally make fun, you don't feel too sorry for them. Pick your self up. Come on, one more rep, one more rep. Let's go. Now don't be lazy. Get up. Do it again."
0:32:20.4 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:32:20.9 Robert Drysdale: You know, and I think that people, they... It's uncomfortable, but people crave that. People need that. You need the push, you... You know what's funny about being a coach that acts that way, is that first they're shocked, like, "How could you talk to me like that?" Or, "How could you make me... " And then eventually, you gain their respect because deep down, that's what they wanted.
0:32:42.7 Mischa Z: Yeah, they just wanna be treated... They want that humanness, right? That...
0:32:49.1 Robert Drysdale: That involves everything. Humanness involves everything, and that's... It's not just being nice to people, not just being polite or political about it. Humanness involves everything, the pretty and the ugly. It involves, "Hey, argue with me, disagree with me."
0:33:02.5 Mischa Z: Yeah. I like that.
0:33:03.5 Robert Drysdale: Right, right. It's okay. You can disagree with me.
0:33:05.2 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:33:05.5 Robert Drysdale: "Oh, my gosh, someone disagreed with me. I can no longer be your friend." "No, it's okay. We'll grab lunch afterwards, but you're still wrong." You'll call him an idiot, and we'll go grab lunch, grab a beer afterwards, and it's all good.
0:33:14.7 Mischa Z: Right.
0:33:14.9 Robert Drysdale: But we're so sensitive and...
0:33:17.2 Mischa Z: God, we're sensitive. It's insane, man.
0:33:19.4 Robert Drysdale: And it's gotten to the point of just ridiculous. This isn't... Where historians will make fun of us in the future, 'cause... Remember those people in the 21st century, right, where you couldn't make fun of each other, because people will get offended. I went to a comedy show the other day, and I can't remember the comedians name, I wish I could, because I would like to give him credit. And he goes, "Comedy is the last bastion of free speech."
0:33:41.0 Mischa Z: Oh, really? Yeah.
0:33:43.8 Robert Drysdale: I'm like, "Amen." That's the only place that you can actually speak your minds. It's like Dave Chappelle and Bill Burr, they have that privilege to just fire from...
0:33:50.6 Mischa Z: Just let it rep. Right?
0:33:53.1 Robert Drysdale: Rep and it's comedy, so they can get... If I said it, I'd go to prison. I think martial arts is appealing, because it's kind of like comedy in a way where it's very blunt, very naked, and very real, very human.
0:34:06.1 Mischa Z: So did you see this vet, this woman who... And obviously, you got to see a progression and a profound effect, she came out of her shell and... Or tell me more. You got to see some cool results?
0:34:20.6 Robert Drysdale: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Next thing you know she's smiling. Next thing you know, she's... It became a ever happy place. I shouldn't have moved, so we don't have her any more, but she... There was a progression there in terms of helping her, happiness, and she couldn't do much jiu-jitsu because of her disability. There really wasn't much she could do, but she just loved being with us and doing her best to do the moves, and we would push her and... We worked around her engines. We have another lady, she's close to 60 now, and she can barely... She's all beat up, but she's on the mat almost every day, and everyone's patient with her, but we push her still.
0:34:54.5 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:34:54.7 Robert Drysdale: Whenever she goes on her knees, I'm like, "No no no, off your knees, off your knees, push ups. On your toes." And people are like, "Oh, you're making me uncomfortable." But then they're like, "You know, I'm glad coach did that, because that's what I really wanted." We've had alcoholism, and people that struggle with that. And they come to the gym every day. It's like their therapy. I don't think they go to AA anymore. As long as they're on the mats every day, it kind of gives them the strength to fight that addiction.
0:35:21.0 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:35:22.2 Robert Drysdale: And we don't talk about it... Yeah.
0:35:23.7 Mischa Z: Honestly, I think atheist or agnostic or not, or whatever, but I mean, it clearly it's, if you want to believe this or take it that far, it's gotta be providing a connection to a source or God or call it whatever you want. Like, it's gotta be tapping into something that... Into that, yeah?
0:35:43.2 Robert Drysdale: There are corners of human nature that we don't always tap into. You don't tap into that unless you have a very strong sense of community, right? And for some people, that's God; for some people, that's just spiritual; for some people, that's just... I mean, call it what you will, but it's... There are feelings that we need to experience as humans that are very rich. We don't call them rich, because they're free. But just because they're free doesn't mean everyone has them.
0:36:08.4 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:36:08.6 Robert Drysdale: But I think we need that. Some of my best moments in life, looking back, were not me on the podium with the gold medal around my neck. They were me on the mats making... With my friends after the practice, we're all covered in sweat, and we just tried to kill... We were trying to kill each other five minutes ago, but now we're laughing in front of each other and exchanging information and teaching each other the moves or... There's a sense of community that you get from that brotherhood that is very unique. I've heard this from soldiers, veterans, they come back from wars, and they go, "Rob, I don't believe in the war, but I feel like I have to go back because my brothers are there." So they go back more for that brotherhood than they do because of the cause. They don't believe in it anymore, but if my friends are there, I have to be there for them.
0:36:54.6 Mischa Z: That's supporting them.
0:36:55.0 Robert Drysdale: They probably miss that bond that they've created being in that... Struggling, the situation of struggle for as long as they have. You're risking your life every day, and there's someone there that is willing to take a bullet for you.
0:37:07.3 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:37:07.8 Robert Drysdale: That's a very unique bond. And I've never been to war, but the mats are that on a smaller scale, but I know how that feels. I have friends that I know they would take a bullet for me, and I'll take a bullet for them.
0:37:19.5 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:37:20.4 Robert Drysdale: And that's... These are the kind of people... It's a kind of friendship you don't dissolve very easily. And it's funny, because if you saw us training, you would think that we hated each other.
0:37:27.2 Mischa Z: Yeah. Yeah, I love that aspect of it, that community, that friendship, that connection, that's so powerful. And I think as we get more into the tech as a world, as a society, those... That community is splintering, and it's become illusory or there's that... The connection through the phone or through that swipe or whatever is not perhaps enough, and I love... Go ahead.
0:37:56.9 Robert Drysdale: No, I just want to capitalize on it, 'cause I think social media is a huge problem. I think it's... It is the reason why suicide and anxiety are going through the roof. There's no real connection anymore, and we think it is. And it is addictive. I spend six hours a day on my phone. I'm not saying I'm not part of... I'm telling you, I'm the part of the problem, but I see what it does to you. You become highly addicted. And the worst part is that, not only are you not creating those bonds, but you become dependent on it for an approval to feel good about yourself, right?
0:38:26.3 Mischa Z: Yeah.
0:38:27.1 Robert Drysdale: It's what the world... The world sets my value. No longer, I don't set my own value, the world sets my value. And that's a... And there's no way that wouldn't lead to a sad life.
0:38:37.5 Mischa Z: Yeah, yeah. I tell you what, I think this is a good place to end. I have a list of amazing questions that I would just want to say that we didn't touch on this much, because I really wanted to offer everybody some, some... The hope or, that tool of what you offer, that Brazilian jiu-jitsu, that strength of mind, resolve, the mental, the community is just so powerful, and it's out there. And obviously, it's growing like mad, so... But I think... You've traveled the world, anybody can watch your TED talk, and they'll get a... They'll get an inkling of sort of your emotional experience with Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which I believe for you is, on one hand was this blessing, but on the other hand is the curse, right?
0:39:31.2 Mischa Z: There's that duality, and it almost kills you, but at the same time, it's your your source. So in the bonus round, we're gonna get into that. I've got some awesome, amazing questions. Perhaps we can get into some of your exploits. I'm excited to talk family with you in round two and some other super fun stuff. So anybody listening, if you've enjoyed Robert and his insights, there's going to be a lot more in our bonus session, so click on the VIP access. And Robert also does, does... Obviously, you have studios, you do retreats, but Robert is gonna offer up some amazing bonuses where perhaps you can join Robert in the fray, literally. So we have that to look forward to. And then where... You can always find Robert at robertdrysdale.net, and a Google search, you can see his TED Talk. And then I'm just going to your site, zenithbjj.com. You can find Robert and all your fun stuff there. You've got a YouTube channel. Any final thoughts to share that we did not get a chance to cover in this first round, Robert?
0:40:54.9 Robert Drysdale: No, man. That was just... That's about it. I think the mats are for everyone. There's no such thing as... And if it's not the mats, it's some other competitive endeavor. You have to find that. You need that place to manifest that other side of you. If you don't have that, you need to find it, your life will be more complete.
0:41:13.6 Mischa Z: Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you so much. This has been amazing and... Yeah, I love your insights. So stay tuned for round two. Click on the VIP, all access pass.